Ah, thanks. I missed that. That's an interesting nuance, that it would only be an issue of "willed" or voluntary visualization, but that more or less autonomic visualization wouldn't be affected.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 6:03 amAccording to wiki aphantasia is a lack of the ability to voluntarily visualise images. It was not invoveld with memory per se..Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 10th, 2022, 1:39 pmIt's not visual relationships that are the issue, it's our memory (if any!) of visual images.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑January 10th, 2022, 8:41 am That's interesting. I'm not very familiar with aphantasia. It's difficult for me to imagine what that would be like.
Do people with aphantasia have trouble with directions/orienteering? (As in, is it easy for them to get lost/to not be able to find their way if spatially disoriented?) It seems to me like spatial maneuvering is very dependent on being able to imagine and mentally retain visual relationships.
How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
Yes, it specifically mentions visual dreams as being enjoyed by those with aphantasia.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 7:00 amAh, thanks. I missed that. That's an interesting nuance, that it would only be an issue of "willed" or voluntary visualization, but that more or less autonomic visualization wouldn't be affected.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 6:03 amAccording to wiki aphantasia is a lack of the ability to voluntarily visualise images. It was not invoveld with memory per se..Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 10th, 2022, 1:39 pmIt's not visual relationships that are the issue, it's our memory (if any!) of visual images.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑January 10th, 2022, 8:41 am That's interesting. I'm not very familiar with aphantasia. It's difficult for me to imagine what that would be like.
Do people with aphantasia have trouble with directions/orienteering? (As in, is it easy for them to get lost/to not be able to find their way if spatially disoriented?) It seems to me like spatial maneuvering is very dependent on being able to imagine and mentally retain visual relationships.
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
Aphantasia is a recently recognised, and defined, condition. There are a number of similar conditions, including so-called 'face blindness'.
See What is aphantasia? for more information.aphantasia.com wrote: Aphantasia is the inability to visualize. Otherwise known as image-free imagination.
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
As I said above APhantasia was first noted by Francis Galton.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 8:06 amAphantasia is a recently recognised, and defined, condition. There are a number of similar conditions, including so-called 'face blindness'.
A lack of face recognition is completely different. That is called Prosopagnosia and is closely related to a specific area of the brain specialised to sort faces. Those who suffer from that cannot tell the difference between their own father and Adolf Hitler.
aphantasia wrote: Aphantasia is the inability to visualize. Otherwise known as image-free imagination.
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
Most people with aphantasia still dream in images however, that's what the Wiki mentions, currently it is usually thought that they are able to visualize when dreaming.
I'll have to disagree with this idea though
Atla wrote:I do often still dream in imagery however, and for a long time I thought that maybe it's just my conscious awake mind that can't visualize. I sometimes even have lucid dreams with imagery.
There is another idea however, claiming that we aren't actually visualizing when dreaming, instead it's presented/processed more or less the same way as waking reality is. When awake, our mind is being fed outside-world input, and when we dreaming, it's being fed input from the inside. But it's not the mind's eye that is "watching".
All things considered, now I think I clearly lean towards this latter idea, and that may tell something about what dreams are.
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
So is spatial navigation difficult for you? It seems like it would be a challenge without being able to visualize where you're going to go (and remember where you've been in terms of spatial orientation, etc.)Atla wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 12:11 pm There is no autonomic visualization either. Or maybe there might be some, but in that case it's impossible for us to detect it, like somehow it would always linger outside of our conscious awareness.
Most people with aphantasia still dream in images however, that's what the Wiki mentions, currently it is usually thought that they are able to visualize when dreaming.
I'll have to disagree with this idea thoughAtla wrote:I do often still dream in imagery however, and for a long time I thought that maybe it's just my conscious awake mind that can't visualize. I sometimes even have lucid dreams with imagery.
There is another idea however, claiming that we aren't actually visualizing when dreaming, instead it's presented/processed more or less the same way as waking reality is. When awake, our mind is being fed outside-world input, and when we dreaming, it's being fed input from the inside. But it's not the mind's eye that is "watching".
All things considered, now I think I clearly lean towards this latter idea, and that may tell something about what dreams are.
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
My inability to navigate has long been a source of amusement amongst my friends. I am largely mentally "blind". My thoughts are not visual, but they arrive in spoken words or vague sensations or emotions. Thus, sometimes I catch myself typing wrong words that rhyme with the one I intended.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 7:00 pmSo is spatial navigation difficult for you? It seems like it would be a challenge without being able to visualize where you're going to go (and remember where you've been in terms of spatial orientation, etc.)Atla wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 12:11 pm There is no autonomic visualization either. Or maybe there might be some, but in that case it's impossible for us to detect it, like somehow it would always linger outside of our conscious awareness.
Most people with aphantasia still dream in images however, that's what the Wiki mentions, currently it is usually thought that they are able to visualize when dreaming.
I'll have to disagree with this idea thoughAtla wrote:I do often still dream in imagery however, and for a long time I thought that maybe it's just my conscious awake mind that can't visualize. I sometimes even have lucid dreams with imagery.
There is another idea however, claiming that we aren't actually visualizing when dreaming, instead it's presented/processed more or less the same way as waking reality is. When awake, our mind is being fed outside-world input, and when we dreaming, it's being fed input from the inside. But it's not the mind's eye that is "watching".
All things considered, now I think I clearly lean towards this latter idea, and that may tell something about what dreams are.
Aside from navigation (which is a significant limiter) I'd never thought of my non-visual, audio/conceptual thoughts as a problem, just a characteristic that relates to one's learning style. That may be why I find visual charts and graphs so strongly illuminating(?). Maybe they fill the gap, allowing for a more complete overview of a situation?
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
I'm average at spatial navigation, the images are missing but my mind tries to compensate with abstract impressions and abstract impression memories, or something like that.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 7:00 pmSo is spatial navigation difficult for you? It seems like it would be a challenge without being able to visualize where you're going to go (and remember where you've been in terms of spatial orientation, etc.)Atla wrote: ↑January 11th, 2022, 12:11 pm There is no autonomic visualization either. Or maybe there might be some, but in that case it's impossible for us to detect it, like somehow it would always linger outside of our conscious awareness.
Most people with aphantasia still dream in images however, that's what the Wiki mentions, currently it is usually thought that they are able to visualize when dreaming.
I'll have to disagree with this idea thoughAtla wrote:I do often still dream in imagery however, and for a long time I thought that maybe it's just my conscious awake mind that can't visualize. I sometimes even have lucid dreams with imagery.
There is another idea however, claiming that we aren't actually visualizing when dreaming, instead it's presented/processed more or less the same way as waking reality is. When awake, our mind is being fed outside-world input, and when we dreaming, it's being fed input from the inside. But it's not the mind's eye that is "watching".
All things considered, now I think I clearly lean towards this latter idea, and that may tell something about what dreams are.
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
Yes, me too. I can learn my way to/from places, but it takes many repetitions of the same journey - by exactly the same route - before I can do it. And if I don't do that journey for a few months, I start to lose the 'memory' of it.
Happily, I have an Irish woman in my car, imprisoned in a small plastic box. She knows the way to just about everywhere.
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
- Sy Borg
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
Yes, I lose memory of directions very quickly.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 11:06 amYes, me too. 😐 I can learn my way to/from places, but it takes many repetitions of the same journey - by exactly the same route - before I can do it. And if I don't do that journey for a few months, I start to lose the 'memory' of it.
Happily, I have an Irish woman in my car, imprisoned in a small plastic box. She knows the way to just about everywhere. 😉
I have trouble with GPS's for some reason, probably because my attention is not constant but operates like a rapid wave, blinking in and out, which can be an issue on the road when you don't know where you are and you are surrounded by truck-sized cars that obscure vision in all directions. So, most times, I use Uber rather than drive.
That Irish woman sounds like something out of Black Mirror :)
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Re: How would it impact your life if you would lose your mind's eye?
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023