Question for Scott

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Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Question for Scott

Post by Nick_A »

Hi Scott

You wrote defining philosophy:
Philosophy consists of the contemplative investigation of the most fundamental aspects of existence, life, knowledge, and value. Philosophy concerns itself with how to live one's life (ethics), what one knows, can know, and how one knows it (epistemology), and what can be said to exist (metaphysics).
The word philosophy comes from the Greek word philos, meaning love/affinity/friendship, and the Greek word sophia, meaning wisdom. So a philosopher is literally a lover of wisdom.
The modern emphasis for philosophy is secular philosophy defined as concerned with feeling the meaning of which is revealed by our senses. Since our senses are limited to the world below Plato’s divided line it is limited to our world. Secular Man searches for meaning leading to wisdom in the secular world. The world must serve Man in its need for meaning

However there is a minority who are still attracted to universal philosophy. Man is not the center of the universe but rather a part of a universal conscious whole. From this perspective the meaning and purpose for Man is not found in how the universe serves the needs of Man but rather how Man can serve the purpose of this living machine called universe.

Previously Man needed a God to serve the secular worldly needs of Man. However for some it is no longer the case. They have become open to noesis and feeling how Man can serve the universe. Einstein explains:
The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.
 Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, NY Times, November 9, 1930.
The essence of religion and the essence of philosophy are the same in their need to feel reality. Plato's GOOD is both religious and philosophical but is their common cause now dying in favor of secularism and the domain of politics and the senses? Nietzsche said God is Dead and wondered what would replace it? My gut feeling is that the attractions of modern technology create a fascination assuring the death of universal philosophy. Do you think that Man can eventually remember what is being lost through its obsession with modern fragmentation and regain its ability to connect above and below which leads Man to wisdom? I cannot see it happening. Nothing at this point can stop the collective rush to hit bottom and the catastrophe it results in. What does your interest in philosophy suggest to you?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Question for Scott

Post by Nick_A »

Philosophy serves an external societal purpose but also can serve a purpose as a kind of inner psychological nutrition for the needs of the heart.

From Jacob Needleman's book "The Heart of Philosophy"
Chapter 1

Introduction
Man cannot live without philosophy. This is not a figure of speech but a literal fact that will be demonstrated in this book. There is a yearning in the heart that is nourished only by real philosophy and without this nourishment man dies as surely as if he were deprived of food and air. But this part of the human psyche is not known or honored in our culture. When it does breakthrough to our awareness it is either ignored or treated as something else. It is given wrong names; it is not cared for; it is crushed. And eventually, it may withdraw altogether, never again to appear. When this happens man becomes a thing. No matter what he accomplishes or experiences, no matter what happiness he experiences or what service he performs, he has in fact lost his real possibility. He is dead.

……………………….The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy……………………………….
Do you believe that the essence of philosophy and its goal of remembrance described by Plato is essential for man to consciously evolve and to leave Plato's cave? If universal philosophy dies and the calling to remembrance dies along with it, there is nothing to remember since Man will become increasingly enchanted with the shadows on the wall and forget its calling to awe and wonder. With nothing to inspire the cosmic religious feeling, Will Humanity become more animalistic over time? Will might makes right become the highest secular human value replacing the higher value of respect for life?

It seems to me that conscious evolution is essential if our species is to develop in its being. Yet without philosophy and its goal of remembrance it is doomed to fail. Can philosophy be that important?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Raymond
Posts: 317
Joined: January 23rd, 2022, 6:47 pm

Re: Question for Scott

Post by Raymond »

Nick_A wrote: March 26th, 2022, 4:29 pm Hi Scott

You wrote defining philosophy:
Philosophy consists of the contemplative investigation of the most fundamental aspects of existence, life, knowledge, and value. Philosophy concerns itself with how to live one's life (ethics), what one knows, can know, and how one knows it (epistemology), and what can be said to exist (metaphysics).
The word philosophy comes from the Greek word philos, meaning love/affinity/friendship, and the Greek word sophia, meaning wisdom. So a philosopher is literally a lover of wisdom.
The modern emphasis for philosophy is secular philosophy defined as concerned with feeling the meaning of which is revealed by our senses. Since our senses are limited to the world below Plato’s divided line it is limited to our world. Secular Man searches for meaning leading to wisdom in the secular world. The world must serve Man in its need for meaning

However there is a minority who are still attracted to universal philosophy. Man is not the center of the universe but rather a part of a universal conscious whole. From this perspective the meaning and purpose for Man is not found in how the universe serves the needs of Man but rather how Man can serve the purpose of this living machine called universe.

Previously Man needed a God to serve the secular worldly needs of Man. However for some it is no longer the case. They have become open to noesis and feeling how Man can serve the universe. Einstein explains:
The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.
 Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, NY Times, November 9, 1930.
The essence of religion and the essence of philosophy are the same in their need to feel reality. Plato's GOOD is both religious and philosophical but is their common cause now dying in favor of secularism and the domain of politics and the senses? Nietzsche said God is Dead and wondered what would replace it? My gut feeling is that the attractions of modern technology create a fascination assuring the death of universal philosophy. Do you think that Man can eventually remember what is being lost through its obsession with modern fragmentation and regain its ability to connect above and below which leads Man to wisdom? I cannot see it happening. Nothing at this point can stop the collective rush to hit bottom and the catastrophe it results in. What does your interest in philosophy suggest to you?
Why the hel religion should be fear or moral based?
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