What is "Will"?

[gad-fly]

"free will, in humans, the power or capacity to choose among alternatives or to act in certain situations independently of natural, social, or divine restraints."

The above statement is not properly worded. It can be:
Will, not just in humans, but in all living organism, is the power or capacity to choose among options. The choice is not necessarily followed by action resulting from the said will which is not subject to constraint or restraint.

To illustrate: I see this pretty girl. I have the will to kiss her. This will has nothing to do with any constraint, or whether i would be restrained because a policeman is around. My will comes naturally, with no cost benefit analysis, no moral consideration, no what if, and so on. Would I do it? That is the next question.

In this respect, will is always free, whether arising from a coward, a hero, or a bug. If you agree on this point, it is redundant to refer to Free Will, since you would imply that Will is not necessarily free.

The closest term to 'will' is 'Desire'. You desire sex, and your will would be having sex. The next is 'Want'. you want to be rich, and your will would be on money. You desire to be satiated materially, and you will would be to shop till you drop, but you would be constrained by the budget line, as in freshman Economics.

[gad-fly]

In this respect, will is always free, whether arising from a coward, a hero, or a bug.

From another angle, will may not necessarily be free, in which case it would be legitimate to refer to " free will" and "unfree will". But how can there be unfree will if will arises naturally, without motivation, cause, or whatever. I would attribute this on some dark and unconscionable force or conditional reflex like the Pavlovian Dog. A bell tingles, and the urge arises. This reflex on will may be more common than we may suspect. It may take a psychologist to elaborate.

In this respect, it would be appropriate to take will to free under all circumstances, unless the contrary is warranted.

[LuckyR]

"free will, in humans, the power or capacity to choose among alternatives or to act in certain situations independently of natural, social, or divine restraints."

The above statement is not properly worded. It can be:
Will, not just in humans, but in all living organism, is the power or capacity to choose among options. The choice is not necessarily followed by action resulting from the said will which is not subject to constraint or restraint.

To illustrate: I see this pretty girl. I have the will to kiss her. This will has nothing to do with any constraint, or whether i would be restrained because a policeman is around. My will comes naturally, with no cost benefit analysis, no moral consideration, no what if, and so on. Would I do it? That is the next question.

In this respect, will is always free, whether arising from a coward, a hero, or a bug. If you agree on this point, it is redundant to refer to Free Will, since you would imply that Will is not necessarily free.

The closest term to 'will' is 'Desire'. You desire sex, and your will would be having sex. The next is 'Want'. you want to be rich, and your will would be on money. You desire to be satiated materially, and you will would be to shop till you drop, but you would be constrained by the budget line, as in freshman Economics.

Yes, that is what "will" is. As it happens recently there have been several threads that refer to the action after the decision is made as will. This is clearly incorrect.

As an aside, many Determinists refute the idea that choice exists, that choice is an illusion, that decisions can only have one outcome based on the physical state of the brain at the time that "decisions" are "made".

[stevie]

Will is a mental factor that is concerned with the actualization of a goal, that is, the conative or volitional aspect of cognition.

[gad-fly]

Yes, that is what "will" is. As it happens recently there have been several threads that refer to the action after the decision is made as will. This is clearly incorrect.

As an aside, many Determinists refute the idea that choice exists, that choice is an illusion, that decisions can only have one outcome based on the physical state of the brain at the time that "decisions" are "made".

It is a daunting task to delineate Will from Action, Choice, and Determination. Picture Will as your boss or master. He gives the order: Clean the room. You are the handmaid or servant. You may do it now, later, ignore him, or even argue with him, but you cannot take his place. In your role, you cannot say, "Wait a minute. Let me give the order."

As to the outcome of that order which may involve your brain or whatever, all of those would only arise after the order is given, but not before. In this respect, Will is free of outside constraint altogether.

[JackDaydream]

"free will, in humans, the power or capacity to choose among alternatives or to act in certain situations independently of natural, social, or divine restraints."

The above statement is not properly worded. It can be:
Will, not just in humans, but in all living organism, is the power or capacity to choose among options. The choice is not necessarily followed by action resulting from the said will which is not subject to constraint or restraint.

To illustrate: I see this pretty girl. I have the will to kiss her. This will has nothing to do with any constraint, or whether i would be restrained because a policeman is around. My will comes naturally, with no cost benefit analysis, no moral consideration, no what if, and so on. Would I do it? That is the next question.

In this respect, will is always free, whether arising from a coward, a hero, or a bug. If you agree on this point, it is redundant to refer to Free Will, since you would imply that Will is not necessarily free.

The closest term to 'will' is 'Desire'. You desire sex, and your will would be having sex. The next is 'Want'. you want to be rich, and your will would be on money. You desire to be satiated materially, and you will would be to shop till you drop, but you would be constrained by the budget line, as in freshman Economics.

I am not sure that the issue of kissing the girl is about free will or about reading the intentions of the girl, including whether she is interested. To kiss a girl who is not interested could cause annoyance and if she is not wishing to be kissed it could also be considered as sexual harassment. So, it is about mutual negotiated will.

[LuckyR]

Yes, that is what "will" is. As it happens recently there have been several threads that refer to the action after the decision is made as will. This is clearly incorrect.

As an aside, many Determinists refute the idea that choice exists, that choice is an illusion, that decisions can only have one outcome based on the physical state of the brain at the time that "decisions" are "made".

It is a daunting task to delineate Will from Action, Choice, and Determination. Picture Will as your boss or master. He gives the order: Clean the room. You are the handmaid or servant. You may do it now, later, ignore him, or even argue with him, but you cannot take his place. In your role, you cannot say, "Wait a minute. Let me give the order."

As to the outcome of that order which may involve your brain or whatever, all of those would only arise after the order is given, but not before. In this respect, Will is free of outside constraint altogether.

To me Will is a concept that describes the making of the Choice. Thus by making a choice one is exercising their will. Action may or may not follow the decision and is thus unrelated to will. Determinism definitely governs action, the debate is: does determinism dictate "choice" such that there is no real choice?

In the vernacular of room cleanliness, the condition of the dirty room is a fact, you have the choice to clean it now, later or never and yes, you can CHOOSE to ignore the room and ponder what you want for lunch, that's exercising your Will.

[gad-fly]

To me Will is a concept that describes the making of the Choice. Thus by making a choice one is exercising their will. Action may or may not follow the decision and is thus unrelated to will. Determinism definitely governs action, the debate is: does determinism dictate "choice" such that there is no real choice?

Your "Will" should never be denigrated as a concept, because it is real, as real as any of emotional manifestation. It does not begin with any choice or determination. Will arises all by itself. Fulfilling (rather than exercising) your will or not involves a complex process of consideration. Will does not care one bit about such fulfilment. In this respect, Will is a a priori.

[LuckyR]

To me Will is a concept that describes the making of the Choice. Thus by making a choice one is exercising their will. Action may or may not follow the decision and is thus unrelated to will. Determinism definitely governs action, the debate is: does determinism dictate "choice" such that there is no real choice?

Your "Will" should never be denigrated as a concept, because it is real, as real as any of emotional manifestation. It does not begin with any choice or determination. Will arises all by itself. Fulfilling (rather than exercising) your will or not involves a complex process of consideration. Will does not care one bit about such fulfilment. In this respect, Will is a a priori.

That is an interesting definition and if accepted, would you say that will can exist in the absence of active thought?

[gad-fly]

That is an interesting definition and if accepted, would you say that will can exist in the absence of active thought?

Yes. Very much so. Will arises from desire. Calculation, manipulation, prudence, worry, cowardice, they all come later, after the emergence of Will. In this respect, Will being free of all incumbrance is Free. On the other hand, Will may be eclipsed by subconscious factors beyond one's control.

Take the rising sun. It appears on the east, every day. But it can be eclipsed, though rarely. Take another example. Will is free, as free as a bird on the tree.

[LuckyR]

That is an interesting definition and if accepted, would you say that will can exist in the absence of active thought?

Yes. Very much so. Will arises from desire. Calculation, manipulation, prudence, worry, cowardice, they all come later, after the emergence of Will. In this respect, Will being free of all incumbrance is Free. On the other hand, Will may be eclipsed by subconscious factors beyond one's control.

Take the rising sun. It appears on the east, every day. But it can be eclipsed, though rarely. Take another example. Will is free, as free as a bird on the tree.

How can one desire something without being able to think?

[gad-fly]

How can one desire something without being able to think?

Of course he can. An idiot or moron can desire as much as anyone else. Not only that, but animal and plant desire too, even though they cannot tell you directly. Do you keep a pet? Have you seen them looking at you pleadingly? Perhaps then you can guess their will to some extent, if you do love them.

[LuckyR]

How can one desire something without being able to think?

Of course he can. An idiot or moron can desire as much as anyone else. Not only that, but animal and plant desire too, even though they cannot tell you directly. Do you keep a pet? Have you seen them looking at you pleadingly? Perhaps then you can guess their will to some extent, if you do love them.

But idiots, morons and pets think. I'm talking about NOT thinking, say when you are in a coma.

[gad-fly]

But idiots, morons and pets think. I'm talking about NOT thinking, say when you are in a coma.

I am not about to mince words. Some may argue that people think all the time, some that he can stop to think by choice or by force of circumstance, as in a coma. Granted the latter, that he is reduced to a non-living stone, then like a stone he would have no will, and he would be comfortable staying put or rolling down the hill. A total eclipse of the brain.