Mind

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Waechter418
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Mind

Post by Waechter418 »

Most of our thoughts & beliefs are attempts of Mind to realize itself and bring about religions, philosophies, sciences, cosmologies, collective- ego- and innumerable other constructs, as well as plenty of problems & confusions.

“Our essence of mind is intrinsically pure. If we knew our mind perfectly and realized what our Self-nature truly is, all of us would be enlightened.” (liberated)
Hui Neng

"Know thy Self" is the first maxim inscribed on the temple wall of Apollo at Delphi (ca.450 BC) and made famous by Socrates who said “Knowledge is inherent in man, not outside. Wisdom is to recollect.”
That it made it barely beyond philosophical exercises, is probably because in the Occident developed around the same time the ratio of Dualism which confines Knowledge to operations of the intellect and Self to the Ego-complex.

Being more openminded Oriental, foremost Daoist, Hindu & Buddhist thinkers researched this omnipresent, yet evasive, organism called Mind for more than 2000 years and came – despite their widely varying ways of investigation– to the conclusion that Mind is responsible for All.

The phenomena of existence are in perpetual motion - they manifest instantaneous and contact the senses as flashes of energy - Mind interprets the reactions of the senses.

“What we have called matter is energy whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses” (Albert Einstein)

“It has been stated that during these contacts, both the sense-organ and the object with which it is in contact undergo changes because both are aggregates of particles in movement.
The intensity of the different contacts varies. Only some among them awake an echo in the mind.”
“Secret oral teachings in Tibetan Buddhist Sects” by Alexandra David-Neel

As the energy flashes that contact the senses reach mind at random, its self- and reality constructs are incoherent.
And as the reactions of the mind turn into actions that effect reactions, action/reaction-chains come about, whose endings are unforeseeable and beginnings hard to recall.
stevie
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Re: Mind

Post by stevie »

There is no scientific evidence of "mind". "mind" is a word to express a concept human brains habitually fabricate when speech about alleged "inner" experience is intended.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Raymond
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Re: Mind

Post by Raymond »

stevie wrote: April 11th, 2022, 2:49 am There is no scientific evidence of "mind". "mind" is a word to express a concept human brains habitually fabricate when speech about alleged "inner" experience is intended.
Pain is not an alleged state. It's a real state, and the word "pain", as part of the mind, is fabricated to talk about it. Why is pain "alleged"?
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Consul
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Re: Mind

Post by Consul »

Waechter418 wrote: April 10th, 2022, 3:43 pm “What we have called matter is energy whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses” (Albert Einstein)
Where and when did he say that?

Anyway, the m in Einstein's famous formula E = mc2 stands for mass rather than for matter; so it doesn't mean that matter is energy.
See: Misconceptions about Eo=mc2
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
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IKnowNothing
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Re: Mind

Post by IKnowNothing »

While I doubt Einstein said that considering that he was a physicist for which mass and matter are distinct things, in a regular discussion the distinction is not relevant, especially given the concept expressed. Since all matter has by definition mass and it's energy stated equivalent it is not such a long stretch. More doubtful is the remark concerning vibrations and senses as it's quite a big contrast between the very limited spectrum of senses and the quasi-infinity of vibrations range, not mentioning the dark matter
stevie
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Re: Mind

Post by stevie »

Raymond wrote: April 11th, 2022, 11:02 am
stevie wrote: April 11th, 2022, 2:49 am There is no scientific evidence of "mind". "mind" is a word to express a concept human brains habitually fabricate when speech about alleged "inner" experience is intended.
Pain is not an alleged state. It's a real state, and the word "pain", as part of the mind, is fabricated to talk about it. Why is pain "alleged"?
There you go. Words and the concepts they express are taken to be reality simply on the basis of them being merely used to express alleged "inner" experience.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Raymond
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Re: Mind

Post by Raymond »

stevie wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:51 am
Raymond wrote: April 11th, 2022, 11:02 am
stevie wrote: April 11th, 2022, 2:49 am There is no scientific evidence of "mind". "mind" is a word to express a concept human brains habitually fabricate when speech about alleged "inner" experience is intended.
Pain is not an alleged state. It's a real state, and the word "pain", as part of the mind, is fabricated to talk about it. Why is pain "alleged"?
There you go. Words and the concepts they express are taken to be reality simply on the basis of them being merely used to express alleged "inner" experience.
Yes, but what you mean with alleged?
stevie
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Re: Mind

Post by stevie »

Raymond wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:57 am
stevie wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:51 am
Raymond wrote: April 11th, 2022, 11:02 am
stevie wrote: April 11th, 2022, 2:49 am There is no scientific evidence of "mind". "mind" is a word to express a concept human brains habitually fabricate when speech about alleged "inner" experience is intended.
Pain is not an alleged state. It's a real state, and the word "pain", as part of the mind, is fabricated to talk about it. Why is pain "alleged"?
There you go. Words and the concepts they express are taken to be reality simply on the basis of them being merely used to express alleged "inner" experience.
Yes, but what you mean with alleged?
"alleged" refers to "inner", "experience" and the example experience "pain" you brought up and it refers to these in the context of "taken to be reality". "alleged" does not deny mere appearances.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Sunday66
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Re: Mind

Post by Sunday66 »

stevie wrote: April 11th, 2022, 2:49 am There is no scientific evidence of "mind". "mind" is a word to express a concept human brains habitually fabricate when speech about alleged "inner" experience is intended.
Why would science have something to say about mind?
Raymond
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Joined: January 23rd, 2022, 6:47 pm

Re: Mind

Post by Raymond »

stevie wrote: April 12th, 2022, 3:27 am
Raymond wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:57 am
stevie wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:51 am
Raymond wrote: April 11th, 2022, 11:02 am

Pain is not an alleged state. It's a real state, and the word "pain", as part of the mind, is fabricated to talk about it. Why is pain "alleged"?
There you go. Words and the concepts they express are taken to be reality simply on the basis of them being merely used to express alleged "inner" experience.
Yes, but what you mean with alleged?
"alleged" refers to "inner", "experience" and the example experience "pain" you brought up and it refers to these in the context of "taken to be reality". "alleged" does not deny mere appearances.
What is a mere appearance? Ain't an appearance real?
stevie
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Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: Mind

Post by stevie »

Raymond wrote: April 14th, 2022, 3:15 am
stevie wrote: April 12th, 2022, 3:27 am
Raymond wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:57 am
stevie wrote: April 12th, 2022, 2:51 am

There you go. Words and the concepts they express are taken to be reality simply on the basis of them being merely used to express alleged "inner" experience.
Yes, but what you mean with alleged?
"alleged" refers to "inner", "experience" and the example experience "pain" you brought up and it refers to these in the context of "taken to be reality". "alleged" does not deny mere appearances.
What is a mere appearance? Ain't an appearance real?
The "mere" in the expression "mere appearance" is only a linguistic device to express "appearance" without adding any conceptual fabrication to it that isn't there when the appearance appears. That means: an appearance is what appears independent of you asking "Is it real?" or asking "Is it unreal?" or believing "This appearance is real" or believing "This appearance is unreal."
An appearance does not depend on your conceptual judgements "real", "unreal" or any other judgement because it merely appears.
Thus e.g. the skeptics say:
we are not raising a question about the appearance but rather about what is said about the appearance
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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Consul
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Re: Mind

Post by Consul »

Raymond wrote: April 14th, 2022, 3:15 amWhat is a mere appearance? Ain't an appearance real?
The word "appearance" is ambiguous between "something appearing" ("that which appears") and "appearing of something". The appearing of something is a perceptual experience. However, no experience is an appearance unless there is something appearing (which is not the experience itself); so hallucinatory experiences aren't appearances, because there is nothing which appears. Hallucination is pseudo-perception, so what we have in this case is mere semblance that falsely seems to be a perceptual experience of something. Nonetheless, all sensory appearances or semblances are real experiences. In the case of hallucination, the hallucinating is real and the hallucinated is not.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
Raymond
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Joined: January 23rd, 2022, 6:47 pm

Re: Mind

Post by Raymond »

Consul wrote: April 14th, 2022, 3:11 pm
Raymond wrote: April 14th, 2022, 3:15 amWhat is a mere appearance? Ain't an appearance real?
The word "appearance" is ambiguous between "something appearing" ("that which appears") and "appearing of something". The appearing of something is a perceptual experience. However, no experience is an appearance unless there is something appearing (which is not the experience itself); so hallucinatory experiences aren't appearances, because there is nothing which appears. Hallucination is pseudo-perception, so what we have in this case is mere semblance that falsely seems to be a perceptual experience of something. Nonetheless, all sensory appearances or semblances are real experiences. In the case of hallucination, the hallucinating is real and the hallucinated is not.
Yes. The dream is real but everything dreamt a mere dream. Still the dream tells us things about reality. Mind is real. The things though of in your mind are not real but tell you things about the world.
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