What philosophy offends you most?

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Sculptor1
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

Post by Sculptor1 »

GE Morton wrote: August 10th, 2022, 10:22 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 5:48 am I have no more time for such silliness
What you have no more of, is arguments supporting your views.
Tutut
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: August 9th, 2022, 5:09 am "What philosophy offends you most?"

Intolerance, distorting the views of others using straw man and ad hominem attacks, and petty bickering. Even since I have been here, this forum has noticeably moved in that direction. Just look at the posts preceding this one. Shame on us all for doing that, or for allowing it to happen.
Sy Borg wrote: August 9th, 2022, 5:39 pm While I find peace vastly preferable, I sometimes choose to challenge those who unfairly misrepresent or even openly denigrate the vulnerable.
Oh, I think we all do that! 😉 The stereotype for net-nerds like us is encapsulated by the phrase, "No, I can't do that right now. There's someone on the internet who is WRONG!" 😅


Sy Borg wrote: August 9th, 2022, 5:39 pm I understand the wish to ignore the issues for the sake of equanimity. That is my preference too, but imagine if your child was trans and how those comments would impact them. If the comments on this thread remained unchallenged, I would not like a vulnerable young person reading them.
With that, I must disagree, mildly. Personally, I would not "ignore the issues for the sake of equanimity". Any and all issues can be approached with courtesy, as well as intellectual clarity, and other such stuff. Yes, it is right and proper to challenge posts that might hurt others.


Sy Borg wrote: August 9th, 2022, 5:39 pm I like to think of a philosophy forum as a space where reason can be relied upon to be spoken, at least most - well, a fair bit - of the time. However, the divisive zeitgeist has made its mark, and that's an issue for the whole internet.
It is. But I still regret that it is happening here, more often than I think it used to?


Sy Borg wrote: August 9th, 2022, 5:39 pm In the end, if one starts a thread called "What philosophy offends you most?", one should not be surprised and disappointed when opinions are sharply divided :lol:
Oh, agreed! 🙂 But courtesy remains a requirement too.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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Sy Borg wrote: August 9th, 2022, 5:39 pm While I find peace vastly preferable, I sometimes choose to challenge those who unfairly misrepresent or even openly denigrate the vulnerable.
Pattern-chaser wrote: August 11th, 2022, 8:25 am Oh, I think we all do that! 😉 The stereotype for net-nerds like us is encapsulated by the phrase, "No, I can't do that right now. There's someone on the internet who is WRONG!" 😅
With hindsight, I consider my response 👆 rather too flippant. The point you make is a serious one, with which I completely agree.
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 5:48 am I have no more time for such silliness
GE Morton wrote: August 10th, 2022, 10:22 am What you have no more of, is arguments supporting your views.
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 11:17 am Tutut
Examination of past posts indicates that, when you run out of arguments, you resort to bluster and personal insults. GEM's observation appears justified?
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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The notion (popular here and in philosophy in general) that "argument" is the best or only path to some sort of truth is, I think, incorrect. This is especially true when those arguing repeat themselves and insist on arranging and defining the terms of the argument. The hostility shown by some posters toward post-modernism demonstrates a lack of interest in other points of view, and a blind insistance that their own point of view is "correct".

Obviously, everyone thinks his own position is correct, because he wouldn't hold it unless he believed it correct. But reasonable people recognize that they might very well be wrong.
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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Ecurb wrote: August 11th, 2022, 9:54 am The notion (popular here and in philosophy in general) that "argument" is the best or only path to some sort of truth is, I think, incorrect. This is especially true when those arguing repeat themselves and insist on arranging and defining the terms of the argument. The hostility shown by some posters toward post-modernism demonstrates a lack of interest in other points of view, and a blind insistance that their own point of view is "correct".

Obviously, everyone thinks his own position is correct, because he wouldn't hold it unless he believed it correct. But reasonable people recognize that they might very well be wrong.
I like your response because it does seem that on this site the main approach seems to be about fiery arguments. The most inflammatory posts and threads get the most responses, so it is not surprising that ythis thread is the dominant one. The way in which I see philosophy is of searching and exploring ideas with people in a fairly collaborative way. However, it seems to be all about people asserting that they are correct. I come from the angle of seeing and exploring my own weaknesses, including faulty arguments and assumptions. I do question myself a lot and find that so many threads on this site have offended me. I should probably stop using the site, for some time at least, but, then, I am just left alone with my own thoughts, because apart from this site and another one I use, I have no one to have any discussion of ideas with at all. It is all so extremely depressing. Life seems to have become the complete misery of the digital age, all speeded up in the aftermath of the pandemic.
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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JackDaydream wrote: August 11th, 2022, 10:19 am The way in which I see philosophy is of searching and exploring ideas with people in a fairly collaborative way.
I agree, but we do seem to be part of a relatively small minority. 😥
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

Post by GE Morton »

Ecurb wrote: August 11th, 2022, 9:54 am
Obviously, everyone thinks his own position is correct, because he wouldn't hold it unless he believed it correct. But reasonable people recognize that they might very well be wrong.
Yes. But reasonable people also demand sound arguments or evidence from someone who claims they are wrong. They also acknowledge their own obligation to present sound arguments and evidence supporting their position.
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

Post by GE Morton »

Ecurb wrote: August 11th, 2022, 9:54 am The notion (popular here and in philosophy in general) that "argument" is the best or only path to some sort of truth is, I think, incorrect.
What alternative path do you have in mind?
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

Post by GE Morton »

JackDaydream wrote: August 11th, 2022, 10:19 am The way in which I see philosophy is of searching and exploring ideas with people in a fairly collaborative way.
That has not been the case at any time during the history of philosophy; it has always been a clash of competing, contentious, incompatible views, but with a common commitment to reason --- logic and evidence --- for resolving them.
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: August 11th, 2022, 8:32 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 5:48 am I have no more time for such silliness
GE Morton wrote: August 10th, 2022, 10:22 am What you have no more of, is arguments supporting your views.
Sculptor1 wrote: August 10th, 2022, 11:17 am Tutut
Examination of past posts indicates that, when you run out of arguments, you resort to bluster and personal insults. GEM's observation appears justified?
Then you have not been following the foregoing.
And would be well advised to keep your nose out rather than stir the pot.
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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GE Morton wrote: August 11th, 2022, 11:49 am [Philosophy] has always been a clash of competing, contentious, incompatible views, but with a common commitment to reason --- logic and evidence --- for resolving them.
Philosophy? Not science? Your words seem to apply much more comfortably to science. Not that philosophy is a stranger to reason and logic, of course...
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

Post by GE Morton »

Pattern-chaser wrote: August 11th, 2022, 12:16 pm
GE Morton wrote: August 11th, 2022, 11:49 am [Philosophy] has always been a clash of competing, contentious, incompatible views, but with a common commitment to reason --- logic and evidence --- for resolving them.
Philosophy? Not science? Your words seem to apply much more comfortably to science. Not that philosophy is a stranger to reason and logic, of course...
You've read Plato's dialogues?
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

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GE Morton wrote: August 11th, 2022, 11:49 am [Philosophy] has always been a clash of competing, contentious, incompatible views, but with a common commitment to reason --- logic and evidence --- for resolving them.
Pattern-chaser wrote: August 11th, 2022, 12:16 pm Philosophy? Not science? Your words seem to apply much more comfortably to science. Not that philosophy is a stranger to reason and logic, of course...
GE Morton wrote: August 11th, 2022, 12:44 pm You've read Plato's dialogues?
I'm not sure how relevant this is, but didn't Plato think and write long before philosophers invented science, and spun it off as a separate entity?
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Re: What philosophy offends you most?

Post by GE Morton »

Pattern-chaser wrote: August 11th, 2022, 12:48 pm
I'm not sure how relevant this is, but didn't Plato think and write long before philosophers invented science, and spun it off as a separate entity?
The issue was whether the history of philosophy has been a "searching and exploring ideas with people in a fairly collaborative way" or contention of competing views. Plato's dialogues are nothing but the latter.
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