What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sunday66 wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:17 am Language is not just words. Language is a symbolic system.
JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 3:24 pm What may be important is how it appears that pictures and symbols came first in evolution, followed by songs and poetry in the evolution of language. It may be that this is true for individual development too. The relationship between language and symbols is also important, including metaphors, myths and stories.
I agree, and I think that it goes even deeper than you describe. As well as "metaphors, myths and stories", many of our words — the ones we use as descriptive labels for things — are also symbols in themselves. They are symbols that we use to stand in place of the thing they describe. Art, of all kinds, also uses symbols to communicate with its audience. Humans make use of symbols at all levels of communication, it seems. So I think that the "relationship between language and symbols" is that language is composed of symbols. 😉 There are other symbols too, of course, with which language often interacts.


JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 3:46 pm I also noticed that you referred in one of the posts in this thread to telepathy. Do you believe that it does take place.
I think that some form(s) of telepathy may be possible, but no, I'm not sure enough of this to assert that I "believe" it takes place. I used "telepathy", carefully qualified, as an analogy to illustrate a point, nothing more.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

Post by Dirticimus-84 »

In my experience, as the result of surviving to become 'chronologically challenged', imperfect human communication is both blessing and curse. Former President Ronald Reagan was often called the 'great communicator'. He had the skills of an actor, the wit of a comedian, the analytics of a lawyer, and the wiles of a politician. A significant number of folks believed everything he said and an equally significant number did not believe anything he said. Yet as a single individual he had an outsized impact on the beliefs of a several hundred million people across the planet. In the end he died from the complications of Alzheimer's disease unable to communicate even his own name. I would postulate that the imperfections of communication allow us to survive as a species and happily enter into philosophical discussions. Life is a Hoot.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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HJCarden wrote: July 5th, 2022, 4:33 pm If I were to think, very analytically about my actions throughout the day, I could give a plausible origin story for my behaviors.
It is currently-accepted wisdom — I can't assert that it is definitely so, of course — that we create these "plausible origin stories" only when we're asked to account for ourselves. They are not the cause of our behaviours, but only post-generated rationalisations. The interesting thing about this is, if this is so, then what were the causes of our actions, the stimuli of whatever sort that resulted in us doing this, and not that?
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: July 6th, 2022, 8:48 am
HJCarden wrote: July 5th, 2022, 4:33 pm If I were to think, very analytically about my actions throughout the day, I could give a plausible origin story for my behaviors.
It is currently-accepted wisdom — I can't assert that it is definitely so, of course — that we create these "plausible origin stories" only when we're asked to account for ourselves. They are not the cause of our behaviours, but only post-generated rationalisations. The interesting thing about this is, if this is so, then what were the causes of our actions, the stimuli of whatever sort that resulted in us doing this, and not that?
What I mean to say is that I can dismiss many actions as most plausibly being out of my control. For example, the fact that I put on pants this morning is most likely a product of my time and place in the map of cultural clothing norms. I do not feel as if putting on pants is a good candidate for an act of radically free will that could construct my identity.

On this topic, do you believe that this means that we often miss the true stimuli that caused our behaviors? Or could many behaviors be "uncaused", not having a traceable genealogy through even a short history of stimuli, if we tried to absolutely divine their origin? And, would a behavior being "uncaused" be a "purely conscious act"?
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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HJCarden wrote: July 5th, 2022, 4:33 pm If I were to think, very analytically about my actions throughout the day, I could give a plausible origin story for my behaviors.
Pattern-chaser wrote: July 6th, 2022, 8:48 am It is currently-accepted wisdom — I can't assert that it is definitely so, of course — that we create these "plausible origin stories" only when we're asked to account for ourselves. They are not the cause of our behaviours, but only post-generated rationalisations. The interesting thing about this is, if this is so, then what were the causes of our actions, the stimuli of whatever sort that resulted in us doing this, and not that?
HJCarden wrote: July 6th, 2022, 11:56 am On this topic, do you believe that this means that we often miss the true stimuli that caused our behaviors?
I think we often choose not to see the things that have 'caused' our actions. We invent 'reasons' for what we did according to our purposes at the time. So, if I am accused of a crime, my explanations will surely support my innocence, and be crafted accordingly. In another context, I might 'explain' the same behaviour in a much-different way. Our communications are self-oriented and self-protective, and often untrue, sometimes knowingly untrue, because the 'truth' wouldn't suit our purposes. We don't lie randomly; we do it (often!) for a purpose.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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Dirticimus-84 wrote: July 6th, 2022, 7:41 am In my experience, as the result of surviving to become 'chronologically challenged', imperfect human communication is both blessing and curse. Former President Ronald Reagan was often called the 'great communicator'. He had the skills of an actor, the wit of a comedian, the analytics of a lawyer, and the wiles of a politician. A significant number of folks believed everything he said and an equally significant number did not believe anything he said. Yet as a single individual he had an outsized impact on the beliefs of a several hundred million people across the planet. In the end he died from the complications of Alzheimer's disease unable to communicate even his own name. I would postulate that the imperfections of communication allow us to survive as a species and happily enter into philosophical discussions. Life is a Hoot.
I think that you are new to the forum and I am pleased to interact with you. You are definitely right to point to the importance of communication because it is the basis for connecting with other minds. Each of us is an actor in.in the way we present ourselves and ideas. The various mediums of communication have limits and strengths. For example, the personas online are so different from those in face to face interaction, but they may still be significant in how we identify in the development of authenticity.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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Dirticimus-84 wrote: July 5th, 2022, 7:18 pm I am new to this forum and hope my participation provides value. I have just short of 80 years of life experience and am currently exploring aspects of philosophy, the examined life, and initially the concepts of existentialism and how that broad school of thought provides insight into the perhaps not so unique individual I thought/think I was/am. At this point I think therefore I am, I feel therefore I am, I choose therefore I am and I do therefore I am. But, I survived three combat tours in Vietnam, I survived accidents at sea, accidents in the air and a head on automobile collision. Several year later I had major surgery and as the surgeon told my wife I was, for a short time clinically dead. So to the point. I am convinced that regardless of heritage, background, training, etc. as time goes by 'serendipitous events' good or bad play a large part in becoming the 'unique I am.'

As I understand the rules I have to make 20 approved posts before any show up on the forum. So only 19 more to go before I become a recognized contributing entity within this forum. Life is a hoot, make the most of it.
I think that I replied to your second post before this one. It sounds as if you have a lot of valuable life experiences, which may be important in philosophy, because it is not simply about reasoning. My own question of what makes you who you are as a unique person is intended to incorporate because reflection on experiences may be as important as the critical faculty of reason.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: July 6th, 2022, 6:30 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:17 am Language is not just words. Language is a symbolic system.
JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 3:24 pm What may be important is how it appears that pictures and symbols came first in evolution, followed by songs and poetry in the evolution of language. It may be that this is true for individual development too. The relationship between language and symbols is also important, including metaphors, myths and stories.
I agree, and I think that it goes even deeper than you describe. As well as "metaphors, myths and stories", many of our words — the ones we use as descriptive labels for things — are also symbols in themselves. They are symbols that we use to stand in place of the thing they describe. Art, of all kinds, also uses symbols to communicate with its audience. Humans make use of symbols at all levels of communication, it seems. So I think that the "relationship between language and symbols" is that language is composed of symbols. 😉 There are other symbols too, of course, with which language often interacts.


JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 3:46 pm I also noticed that you referred in one of the posts in this thread to telepathy. Do you believe that it does take place.
I think that some form(s) of telepathy may be possible, but no, I'm not sure enough of this to assert that I "believe" it takes place. I used "telepathy", carefully qualified, as an analogy to illustrate a point, nothing more.
The symbolic aspects of understanding ourselves and life may be extremely deep. Understanding includes sensory knowledge, emotions, intuition and reason. Carl Jung point to the way in which different faculties are developed differently amongst individuals. It is likely that this comes into play in how we understand our own emotions, life experiences and actions. The limitations of this may also play a part in how the future is seen and the spectrum of possibilities.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

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I postulate that to understand how communication either drives or arises from the unique individuals we are it might be of value to also consider, from a philosophical perspective, communication between those who cannot speak, cannot hear, cannot see. When my son was in high school he competed on the wrestling team against teams across the state. Each year however his school traveled for a competition with a special school in Florida for the deaf and blind. The majority of those students came into the world without benefit of those senses, while other students previously had but lost them. They competed out on the mat and in many cases won their matches. They obviously utilized their tactile sense on what their opponents were doing but there was always something more. They communicated a personal essence of who they were, and in retrospect, were to become.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sunday66 wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:17 am Language is not just words. Language is a symbolic system.
JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 3:24 pm What may be important is how it appears that pictures and symbols came first in evolution, followed by songs and poetry in the evolution of language. It may be that this is true for individual development too. The relationship between language and symbols is also important, including metaphors, myths and stories.
Pattern-chaser wrote: July 6th, 2022, 6:30 am I agree, and I think that it goes even deeper than you describe. As well as "metaphors, myths and stories", many of our words — the ones we use as descriptive labels for things — are also symbols in themselves. They are symbols that we use to stand in place of the thing they describe.
I stopped one step short of completion there 👆, I forgot that our words are composed of alphabetic and numeric characters, that are also symbols. And that's before we add punctuation into the mix. Symbols — or maybe turtles? 😉 — all the way down. And all the way up too, to the 'highest' abstract levels.
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Re: What Has Made You the Unique Person Who You Are?

Post by JackDaydream »

Pattern-chaser wrote: July 8th, 2022, 9:05 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:17 am Language is not just words. Language is a symbolic system.
JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 3:24 pm What may be important is how it appears that pictures and symbols came first in evolution, followed by songs and poetry in the evolution of language. It may be that this is true for individual development too. The relationship between language and symbols is also important, including metaphors, myths and stories.
Pattern-chaser wrote: July 6th, 2022, 6:30 am I agree, and I think that it goes even deeper than you describe. As well as "metaphors, myths and stories", many of our words — the ones we use as descriptive labels for things — are also symbols in themselves. They are symbols that we use to stand in place of the thing they describe.
I stopped one step short of completion there 👆, I forgot that our words are composed of alphabetic and numeric characters, that are also symbols. And that's before we add punctuation into the mix. Symbols — or maybe turtles? 😉 — all the way down. And all the way up too, to the 'highest' abstract levels.
Yes, written words are in the form of alphabets. It is hard to know how sounds were formulated into specific words and how the symbols of the alphabet came about. One of the early alphabet systems was the Egyptian hieroglyphs, which was pictorial. Early civilisations seem to have had a vast knowledge, including maths and even astrology. I am not a firm believer in astrology although someone did draw up a chart, and it did have some correspondence. I am even a Pisces, which is the daydreaming mytical one. However, systems of alphabets and other symbolic structures developed by ancient people show a high level of sophistication in trying to understand the outer and inner aspects of the development of human potential, and uniqueness.
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