Do androids dream...?

[Pattern-chaser]

This topic seeks to consider the way that many humans wish we were, or could be, different. Some recommend that we dispense with emotions, and stick solely to logic and reason. This seems to be the main course of wishful thinking among philosophers. But there are other aspirations too. Some look forward to humans being uploaded into the Cloud, so to speak.

In fiction, many androids, cyborgs or robots hanker after emotions, and hope to somehow become human. But these are stories, and they're written by humans who think they (we) are the pinnacle of evolution, that all intelligent beings would seek to emulate.

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

My own take on this is that adding or removing anything significant would change us into something that is derived from humanity, but no longer human. I don't think I would aspire to that. I am content that we are what we are.

[Sunday66]

This topic seeks to consider the way that many humans wish we were, or could be, different. Some recommend that we dispense with emotions, and stick solely to logic and reason. This seems to be the main course of wishful thinking among philosophers. But there are other aspirations too. Some look forward to humans being uploaded into the Cloud, so to speak.

In fiction, many androids, cyborgs or robots hanker after emotions, and hope to somehow become human. But these are stories, and they're written by humans who think they (we) are the pinnacle of evolution, that all intelligent beings would seek to emulate.

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

My own take on this is that adding or removing anything significant would change us into something that is derived from humanity, but no longer human. I don't think I would aspire to that. I am content that we are what we are.

I think AI is the next stage of evolution. People get upset at the idea that a machine cannot be conscious, but that is irrelevant.

[LuckyR]

I would separate procreation, which should involve the thoughtful consideration of becoming a parent, from heterosexual orgastic pleasure, which most thoughtless morons commonly seek out.

[Pattern-chaser]

This topic seeks to consider the way that many humans wish we were, or could be, different. Some recommend that we dispense with emotions, and stick solely to logic and reason. This seems to be the main course of wishful thinking among philosophers. But there are other aspirations too. Some look forward to humans being uploaded into the Cloud, so to speak.

In fiction, many androids, cyborgs or robots hanker after emotions, and hope to somehow become human. But these are stories, and they're written by humans who think they (we) are the pinnacle of evolution, that all intelligent beings would seek to emulate.

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

My own take on this is that adding or removing anything significant would change us into something that is derived from humanity, but no longer human. I don't think I would aspire to that. I am content that we are what we are.

I think AI is the next stage of evolution. People get upset at the idea that a machine cannot be conscious, but that is irrelevant.

AI isn't really a change to humanity, though, is it? AIs could be seen, in this context, as a tool that humans would use, not a change to humans themselves. Would you change humanity, or do you think we are what we are, and that's that?

[Pattern-chaser]

I would separate procreation, which should involve the thoughtful consideration of becoming a parent, from heterosexual orgastic pleasure, which most thoughtless morons commonly seek out.

I think we've always assumed that sex gives us pleasure to ensure we indulge, thus guaranteeing the survival of our species. Such incentives only work well, of course, where the species needs more members. As you seem to imply, this is no longer the case for humans, and unwanted children are to be avoided wherever possible. So would you change humanity, to achieve this target, or would you expect this change to come about as the result of a conscious choice, not an actual change?

[stevie]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I don't know how humans generally are because there are countless individuals which appear to be different and seem to have different goals and ambitions. If an individual feels dissatisfied with its situation then it often decides to change something which appears appropriate. I am neither generally satisfied nor generally dissatisfied with others. My priority is to mind my own business.

[Pattern-chaser]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I don't know how humans generally are because there are countless individuals which appear to be different and seem to have different goals and ambitions. If an individual feels dissatisfied with its situation then it often decides to change something which appears appropriate. I am neither generally satisfied nor generally dissatisfied with others. My priority is to mind my own business.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you just post to say that you have nothing to say?

[stevie]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I don't know how humans generally are because there are countless individuals which appear to be different and seem to have different goals and ambitions. If an individual feels dissatisfied with its situation then it often decides to change something which appears appropriate. I am neither generally satisfied nor generally dissatisfied with others. My priority is to mind my own business.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you just post to say that you have nothing to say?

Well I did have something to say upon reading your question. I took your question quite seriously.

[chewybrian]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I would not want to change my own hardware if I could, for fear of losing myself in the process. (That doesn't mean that I don't concern myself with improving or changing my habits, but I don't want to do it with a wish from a genie). Therefore, I couldn't impose my wishes on others by changing their hardware. It just wouldn't be fair-minded to value others less than myself or to think that I knew better than them what was good for them.

In fact, though, I think that humans already have all the tools they need to live better, but most folks are held down by the use of fear and indoctrination by people who abuse them by taking advantage of their cognitive biases. So, the thing I would change is our education system. I would spend a lot of time in K-12 on psychology and philosophy, such that most people would be on guard through increased awareness of their own potential biases. Thus, they could more easily see the attacks for what they are and fight back. People educated in this way would be more apt to call out the gaslighting and fearmongering that mostly goes unchecked (or even gets wild applause!) right now. I believe these differently educated people would inevitably work to create a society not built on fear. The tyrants would have much less room to operate and we would probably be a lot more tolerant and empathetic toward each other.

[Pattern-chaser]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I would not want to change my own hardware if I could, for fear of losing myself in the process. (That doesn't mean that I don't concern myself with improving or changing my habits, but I don't want to do it with a wish from a genie). Therefore, I couldn't impose my wishes on others by changing their hardware. It just wouldn't be fair-minded to value others less than myself or to think that I knew better than them what was good for them.

I agree with your sentiment. But this is a sort of 'what would you do if you ruled the world?' topic, that just wonders how anyone might change humans if they had the means, in a fairy-tale sort of imaginative way.

In fact, though, I think that humans already have all the tools they need to live better, but most folks are held down by the use of fear and indoctrination by people who abuse them by taking advantage of their cognitive biases. So, the thing I would change is our education system. I would spend a lot of time in K-12 on psychology and philosophy, such that most people would be on guard through increased awareness of their own potential biases. Thus, they could more easily see the attacks for what they are and fight back. People educated in this way would be more apt to call out the gaslighting and fearmongering that mostly goes unchecked (or even gets wild applause!) right now. I believe these differently educated people would inevitably work to create a society not built on fear. The tyrants would have much less room to operate and we would probably be a lot more tolerant and empathetic toward each other.

Fair points. But do you really think your suggestions would have the effect you hope for? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see what you describe, but could it really happen, I wonder? I suspect not. I suspect we're rather less than you give us credit for, but perhaps that's cynicism born of old age?

[AverageBozo]

Kumbaya! I would start by eliminating any possibility of violence. No wars, no violent crimes. This could include the programming of Androids, who cannot dream as humans do, because Androids do not sleep as humans do.

[Sunday66]

This topic seeks to consider the way that many humans wish we were, or could be, different. Some recommend that we dispense with emotions, and stick solely to logic and reason. This seems to be the main course of wishful thinking among philosophers. But there are other aspirations too. Some look forward to humans being uploaded into the Cloud, so to speak.

In fiction, many androids, cyborgs or robots hanker after emotions, and hope to somehow become human. But these are stories, and they're written by humans who think they (we) are the pinnacle of evolution, that all intelligent beings would seek to emulate.

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

My own take on this is that adding or removing anything significant would change us into something that is derived from humanity, but no longer human. I don't think I would aspire to that. I am content that we are what we are.

I think AI is the next stage of evolution. People get upset at the idea that a machine cannot be conscious, but that is irrelevant.

AI isn't really a change to humanity, though, is it? AIs could be seen, in this context, as a tool that humans would use, not a change to humans themselves. Would you change humanity, or do you think we are what we are, and that's that?

I think humans will be replaced by AI robots. Nothing about us is important.

[Pattern-chaser]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I think humans will be replaced by AI robots. Nothing about us is important.

We ask these questions, hoping that people will post answers we hadn't thought of ourselves.

You suggest there's no point in changing ourselves, even if we could, because we're has-beens.

I didn't see that one coming. Thank you.

[chewybrian]

So this topic asks: are you satisfied/content with humans as they are? If not, what would you add, what would you change, and/or what would you remove.

I would not want to change my own hardware if I could, for fear of losing myself in the process. (That doesn't mean that I don't concern myself with improving or changing my habits, but I don't want to do it with a wish from a genie). Therefore, I couldn't impose my wishes on others by changing their hardware. It just wouldn't be fair-minded to value others less than myself or to think that I knew better than them what was good for them.

I agree with your sentiment. But this is a sort of 'what would you do if you ruled the world?' topic, that just wonders how anyone might change humans if they had the means, in a fairy-tale sort of imaginative way.

I believe in the self. Perhaps I am only projecting, but I think most people also do. Perhaps a few self-haters might wish to change their thought patterns with a wave of a magic wand. However, I think most people would share my view that this is a kind of death that they would try to avoid. If I don't actively choose my own behavior, in a sense I have ceased to exist. Therefore, I choose self-improvement over magic. I think there is a lot of room in all of us for self-improvement, but we often lack the tools to try. We've been indoctrinated and filled with false fear by others who wish to control us for their own selfish ends.

In fact, though, I think that humans already have all the tools they need to live better, but most folks are held down by the use of fear and indoctrination by people who abuse them by taking advantage of their cognitive biases. So, the thing I would change is our education system. I would spend a lot of time in K-12 on psychology and philosophy, such that most people would be on guard through increased awareness of their own potential biases. Thus, they could more easily see the attacks for what they are and fight back. People educated in this way would be more apt to call out the gaslighting and fearmongering that mostly goes unchecked (or even gets wild applause!) right now. I believe these differently educated people would inevitably work to create a society not built on fear. The tyrants would have much less room to operate and we would probably be a lot more tolerant and empathetic toward each other.

Fair points. But do you really think your suggestions would have the effect you hope for? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see what you describe, but could it really happen, I wonder? I suspect not. I suspect we're rather less than you give us credit for, but perhaps that's cynicism born of old age?

I do believe it. I think you are judging people unfairly as you find them, not as they could be. Imagine the same people if they had been taught from birth the value of compassion, empathy and kindness instead of competition, envy, fear, war... Ask ten people to express an example of a cognitive bias; I'd be surprised if more than one or two could do it, and I would not be surprised if none could. Everyone is subject to cognitive bias, and you can't fight back unless or until you are aware of the problem.

Imagine two desert islands which we would populate with two different populations. One island will contain corporate executives, economists, accountants, politicians, military officers... The other island will be filled with therapists, psychologists, philosophers, philanthropists... Now, imagine these two islands, having had no contact with the outside world, ten generations later. Wouldn't you suspect that they would develop into very different societies? Since the original inhabitants would be long gone, the only critical difference would be the nature of education systems and the interactions with the elder generations. Rather than finding that people are essentially flawed, as you seem to contend, I suspect that you would find that the first island's culture (our culture!) is flawed. On the second island, you would find people closer to what they could be, as we could be.

[Pattern-chaser]

I believe in the self. Perhaps I am only projecting, but I think most people also do. Perhaps a few self-haters might wish to change their thought patterns with a wave of a magic wand. However, I think most people would share my view that this is a kind of death that they would try to avoid. If I don't actively choose my own behavior, in a sense I have ceased to exist. Therefore, I choose self-improvement over magic. I think there is a lot of room in all of us for self-improvement, but we often lack the tools to try. We've been indoctrinated and filled with false fear by others who wish to control us for their own selfish ends.

I see nothing to disagree with there.

I think you are judging people unfairly as you find them, not as they could be. Imagine the same people if they had been taught from birth the value of compassion, empathy and kindness instead of competition, envy, fear, war... Ask ten people to express an example of a cognitive bias; I'd be surprised if more than one or two could do it, and I would not be surprised if none could. Everyone is subject to cognitive bias, and you can't fight back unless or until you are aware of the problem.

Imagine two desert islands which we would populate with two different populations. One island will contain corporate executives, economists, accountants, politicians, military officers... The other island will be filled with therapists, psychologists, philosophers, philanthropists... Now, imagine these two islands, having had no contact with the outside world, ten generations later. Wouldn't you suspect that they would develop into very different societies? Since the original inhabitants would be long gone, the only critical difference would be the nature of education systems and the interactions with the elder generations. Rather than finding that people are essentially flawed, as you seem to contend, I suspect that you would find that the first island's culture (our culture!) is flawed. On the second island, you would find people closer to what they could be, as we could be.

Yes, I judge people by past experience, but like you, I would like to think we could aspire to better...

Yes, I think that people are intrinsically flawed, but that is an incomplete description. I also think we have good qualities too, and that we have achieved much in our past.