God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Atla wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 2:41 am For example here are some possibilities:

- We can't use any probability calculations because everything is random. This would be the end of philosophy imo, we can't get any answers because there are none.
I don't think this is a 'possibility'. Empirical observation indicates clearly that everything is not "random". That's not to say that the opposite is clearly so — it isn't. But it is clear that many things exhibit some degree of order. So I dismiss this 'possibility'.


Atla wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 2:41 am - Simpler configurations are more common. This is the possibility that I've been exploring for over a decade.
Indeed, it may be so. Or it may not. I don't think anyone will have done the research to answer this question, so it looks like you'll have to do it for yourself. There's a lot of work to do, though, To investigate so many "configurations", to see which of them conform to your simplicity criterion, and how many don't. This 'possibility' can be confirmed, or denied, but it's a lot of work. Good luck with that! 👍😉


Atla wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 2:41 am - All configurations are equally likely. This actually might be the case. But it seems to conflict with how the natural world seems to behave, so I haven't looked into this much.
To investigate this one, you'll need to know the probability of every configuration you look at. You'd better hope none of them are the sort of problem we've been discussing, where the probabilities are not calculable. I agree that the world seems not to confirm this 'possibility', and I would add that it would be very odd if all 'configurations' had exactly the same probability of occurrence. Very odd. That would make them all random, wouldn't it? Or would it? 🤔🤔🤔

Atla wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 2:41 am - More complex configurations are more common. I haven't considered this before.
I'm not 100% clear on what 'configurations' are, but this one seems quite credible to me. I imagine there are many configurations, very many, of all different 'shapes' and 'sizes'. Some will be simple, but many will surely feature some complexity? The universe is not an especially simple place, after all, and I'm guessing that the nature of these 'configurations' will reflect, in the most approximate way, this feature of the universe...

[As above, this one might be answerable, after a great deal of work. But I wonder if the answer is worth all the work?]
Pattern-chaser

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Atla
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Atla »

Pattern-chaser wrote: July 25th, 2022, 7:12 am Given that the circumstance-under-investigation does not offer calculable probabilities
Given? You mean you haven't thought of a method, so there can't be any.

We consider configurations starting from, say, one particle-pair or starting from nothing, and go up to infinity. We compare different configurations and try to decide which one of them is likely to be more common, and roughly by how much (as in say, orders of magnitude). All we need are their relative likelihoods, not their absolute likelihoods. Trying to calculate their absolute likelihoods may indeed forever be way beyond any human capability.
you are willing to discard what you actually know — not much, in this case — in favour of a fantasy?
Quote me saying that I discard what I actually know.

Insulting my intelligence, falsely accusing me of intellectual dishonesty, accusing me of fantasizing, just the usual. No point in responding further.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: July 25th, 2022, 7:12 am Given that the circumstance-under-investigation does not offer calculable probabilities...
Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:42 am Given? You mean you haven't thought of a method, so there can't be any.
Er, no. I thought we were discussing just the sort of things that I described, things for which there are no probabilities that are calculable. [E.g. that we are brains-in-vats.] Sorry if I misunderstood.


Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:42 am Insulting my intelligence, falsely accusing me of intellectual dishonesty, accusing me of fantasizing, just the usual. No point in responding further.
<yawn>
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Atla
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Atla »

Pfft brains-in-vats is easily calculable, I did that a few times. No we probably aren't brains-in-vats.
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:58 am Pfft brains-in-vats is easily calculable, I did that a few times. No we probably aren't brains-in-vats.
Welcome back! :lol:
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:29 pm
Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:58 am Pfft brains-in-vats is easily calculable, I did that a few times. No we probably aren't brains-in-vats.
Welcome back! :lol:
Atla wrote: July 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm As my last post on this forum (I'm quitting philosophy forums),
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Atla
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Atla »

stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:34 pm
stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:29 pm
Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:58 am Pfft brains-in-vats is easily calculable, I did that a few times. No we probably aren't brains-in-vats.
Welcome back! :lol:
Atla wrote: July 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm As my last post on this forum (I'm quitting philosophy forums),
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm not back, I clarified a few things about the post. Maybe someday an intelligent person will register here and add something worth reading, although the chances are low.
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:52 pm
stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:34 pm
stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:29 pm
Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:58 am Pfft brains-in-vats is easily calculable, I did that a few times. No we probably aren't brains-in-vats.
Welcome back! :lol:
Atla wrote: July 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm As my last post on this forum (I'm quitting philosophy forums),
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm not back, I clarified a few things about the post. Maybe someday an intelligent person will register here and add something worth reading, although the chances are low.
Oh man, you are simply restless and thus you cannot stick to decisions you once have taken. You are a failure and you wanted to tell people about truth :lol: :lol:
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
stevie
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Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:57 pm Oh man, you are simply restless and thus you cannot stick to decisions you once have taken. You are a failure and you wanted to tell people about truth :lol: :lol:
Atla wrote: July 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm I'll show you guys a few initial steps one may take in search for the "truth",
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Atla
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Atla »

stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:57 pm Oh man, you are simply restless and thus you cannot stick to decisions you once have taken. You are a failure and you wanted to tell people about truth :lol: :lol:
Heh quote me saying what the truth is.
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stevie
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 2:03 pm
stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 1:57 pm Oh man, you are simply restless and thus you cannot stick to decisions you once have taken. You are a failure and you wanted to tell people about truth :lol: :lol:
Heh quote me saying what the truth is.
That's not the point. You said:
I'll show you guys a few initial steps one may take in search for the "truth"
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Atla
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Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Atla »

epic fail
Atla wrote: July 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm I haven't been able to find the solution yet
True philosophy points to the Moon
stevie
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 2:53 pm epic fail
Atla wrote: July 4th, 2022, 3:53 pm I haven't been able to find the solution yet
You are a failure, as I said.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Atla
Posts: 2540
Joined: January 30th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by Atla »

stevie wrote: July 25th, 2022, 3:06 pm You are a failure, as I said.
Well, some people are curious about existence, the big questions, and at least try. What could be a bigger failure than being given this big brain and then not use it.
True philosophy points to the Moon
stevie
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Re: God vs Random Chance vs Multiverse

Post by stevie »

Atla wrote: July 25th, 2022, 3:31 pm What could be a bigger failure than being given this big brain and then not use it.
Maybe being given this big brain but not seeing its uselessness concerning self driven questions?
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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