She is always a woman to me

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gad-fly
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She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

Watching Nature TV channel, I am absolutely aghast at how mother polar bears are treated in the icy world by their male chauvinist counter-parts. Shame on you. Can you not recollect what your mother had gone through and sacrifice for your sake? Do you have any conscience at all? Next time I see you threatening the weaker gender, I shall shoot you dead with no hesitation.

Motherhood is great, and fatherhood is no comparison by a long stretch. That I can assure you. But the role of woman is way beyond wife and mother. Man has suppressed and oppressed woman for so long. Is mankind, or the male kind, not ashamed of themselves? They should, and very much so, too. Indeed, I would strongly advocate that the least that the male half of mankind can do is to offer serious apology to their fair sex, formally and openly, to show a good example to the polar bears. Never again, my darling. My turn to pay back and serve you.

I have attached two quotations on Woman below for you to mediate on:

Woman is made great in gentleness
Woman is tender and soft in her acts
Woman speaks with deep sincerities
Woman expresses herself in kind ways

Woman assures everything is alright when it is not
Woman stands for her poise though there is doubt
Woman loves passionately like there is no end to it
Woman comforts even when a situation turns worst

Woman always stood for her precious
Woman always choose to be generous
Woman never point fingers at her betrayer
Woman never says no to a pleading stranger

She is a woman who remains anonymous
She is a woman who is indeed magnanimous!

Jeline Loh Thursday, January 19, 2012

She’s Always a Woman
Billy Joel

She can kill with a smile
She can wound with her eyes
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
And she only reveals what she wants you to see
She hides like a child
But she's always a woman to me

She can lead you to live
She can take you or leave you
She can ask for the truth
But she'll never believe you
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free
She steals like a thief
But she's always a woman to me

Oh, she takes care of herself
She can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, and she never gives out
And she never gives in
She just changes her mind

She will promise you more
Than the Garden of Eden
Then she'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin'
But she'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause she's always a woman to me
Mm...

Genesis 3.22: The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
Genesis 3.24: For this reason a man shall leave his mother and his father, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

What I can read: If one flesh, one would not ill-treat one's own flesh, right? Secondly, he joined to his own wife, not the other way around. Isn't that significant?

I have another point to make. The bible does not imply that woman is inferior because she was made from a man's rib. Indeed, I suspect actually it is the other way around. That miracle rib contains the best ingredients there are in God's creation. Woman becomes superior in every respect physical size, such that man must be joined to her, for better or worse. I am about to shout: Not Fair. But then BilIy Joey lingers. Blame it all on yourself because she's always a woman to me. Too bad! Let me submiss, and say no more.
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Astro Cat
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by Astro Cat »

I think we can hopefully all agree that misogyny is a bad thing, but so is putting women on a pedestal. We’re not angels, we’re not superior any more than we would be inferior.

I think it is best when men and women earn respect in the same ways, with no systemic barriers, no misogyny or misandry, and certainly no putting up on a pedestal.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
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JackDaydream
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Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by JackDaydream »

gad-fly wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:20 pm Watching Nature TV channel, I am absolutely aghast at how mother polar bears are treated in the icy world by their male chauvinist counter-parts. Shame on you. Can you not recollect what your mother had gone through and sacrifice for your sake? Do you have any conscience at all? Next time I see you threatening the weaker gender, I shall shoot you dead with no hesitation.

Motherhood is great, and fatherhood is no comparison by a long stretch. That I can assure you. But the role of woman is way beyond wife and mother. Man has suppressed and oppressed woman for so long. Is mankind, or the male kind, not ashamed of themselves? They should, and very much so, too. Indeed, I would strongly advocate that the least that the male half of mankind can do is to offer serious apology to their fair sex, formally and openly, to show a good example to the polar bears. Never again, my darling. My turn to pay back and serve you.

I have attached two quotations on Woman below for you to mediate on:

Woman is made great in gentleness
Woman is tender and soft in her acts
Woman speaks with deep sincerities
Woman expresses herself in kind ways

Woman assures everything is alright when it is not
Woman stands for her poise though there is doubt
Woman loves passionately like there is no end to it
Woman comforts even when a situation turns worst

Woman always stood for her precious
Woman always choose to be generous
Woman never point fingers at her betrayer
Woman never says no to a pleading stranger

She is a woman who remains anonymous
She is a woman who is indeed magnanimous!

Jeline Loh Thursday, January 19, 2012

She’s Always a Woman
Billy Joel

She can kill with a smile
She can wound with her eyes
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
And she only reveals what she wants you to see
She hides like a child
But she's always a woman to me

She can lead you to live
She can take you or leave you
She can ask for the truth
But she'll never believe you
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free
She steals like a thief
But she's always a woman to me

Oh, she takes care of herself
She can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, and she never gives out
And she never gives in
She just changes her mind

She will promise you more
Than the Garden of Eden
Then she'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin'
But she'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause she's always a woman to me
Mm...

Genesis 3.22: The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
Genesis 3.24: For this reason a man shall leave his mother and his father, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

What I can read: If one flesh, one would not ill-treat one's own flesh, right? Secondly, he joined to his own wife, not the other way around. Isn't that significant?

I have another point to make. The bible does not imply that woman is inferior because she was made from a man's rib. Indeed, I suspect actually it is the other way around. That miracle rib contains the best ingredients there are in God's creation. Woman becomes superat ior in every respect physical size, such that man must be joined to her, for better or worse. I am about to shout: Not Fair. But then BilIy Joey lingers. Blame it all on yourself because she's always a woman to me. Too bad! Let me submiss, and say no more.
Oh no, I suggested that you might add what you had written to the thread on what is a woman, but I didn't think that you would start another one about what a woman is. Yours doesn't seem to be asking what a woman is with comparison to transwomen at least. I am not sure whether you are asking about sexism, although there is one on misogyny already. It may get a bit ridiculous if there are too many threads about women at the same time, so it may be worth thinking what your aim is with creating this one. It will be silly if the same issues that are being discussed on the current one on what is a woman all end up here as well. But, as I am writing I notice that Astro Cat has joined in, so maybe that will help develop this one in a different direction to the other one.
gad-fly
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:30 pm I think we can hopefully all agree that misogyny is a bad thing, but so is putting women on a pedestal. We’re not angels, we’re not superior any more than we would be inferior.

I think it is best when men and women earn respect in the same ways, with no systemic barriers, no misogyny or misandry, and certainly no putting up on a pedestal.
You have misunderstood. I am not putting woman on a pedestal. In fact, I am more on the side of Billy Joey than Jeline Loh. "She can carelessly (not on purpose) cut you and laugh while you are bleeding." Have you experienced that too, whether you are man or woman? It can be bitter or sweet. She brings out the best and worst in you. She is your soul-mate. Enjoy.
gad-fly
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Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

JackDaydream wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:43 pm so maybe that will help develop this one in a different direction to the other one.
This is another post, different from What Is a Woman, which sounds all-embracing. Contribute your thread to either if you like.
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Astro Cat
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by Astro Cat »

gad-fly wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:51 pm
Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:30 pm I think we can hopefully all agree that misogyny is a bad thing, but so is putting women on a pedestal. We’re not angels, we’re not superior any more than we would be inferior.

I think it is best when men and women earn respect in the same ways, with no systemic barriers, no misogyny or misandry, and certainly no putting up on a pedestal.
You have misunderstood. I am not putting woman on a pedestal. In fact, I am more on the side of Billy Joey than Jeline Loh. "She can carelessly (not on purpose) cut you and laugh while you are bleeding." Have you experienced that too, whether you are man or woman? It can be bitter or sweet. She brings out the best and worst in you. She is your soul-mate. Enjoy.
Well, love and relationships are always a duplicitous edge to walk upon, if that's your meaning. I guess so :)
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
gad-fly
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Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 10:28 pm
gad-fly wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:51 pm
Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:30 pm I think we can hopefully all agree that misogyny is a bad thing, but so is putting women on a pedestal. We’re not angels, we’re not superior any more than we would be inferior.

I think it is best when men and women earn respect in the same ways, with no systemic barriers, no misogyny or misandry, and certainly no putting up on a pedestal.
You have misunderstood. I am not putting woman on a pedestal. In fact, I am more on the side of Billy Joey than Jeline Loh. "She can carelessly (not on purpose) cut you and laugh while you are bleeding." Have you experienced that too, whether you are man or woman? It can be bitter or sweet. She brings out the best and worst in you. She is your soul-mate. Enjoy.
Well, love and relationships are always a duplicitous edge to walk upon, if that's your meaning. I guess so :)
No. That is not what I mean. Please read the title again: She is always a woman, like my daughter, mother, sister, or even you if you happen to be a woman. No duplicitous edge to walk on, in most cases.
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Astro Cat
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by Astro Cat »

gad-fly wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:46 pm
Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 10:28 pm Well, love and relationships are always a duplicitous edge to walk upon, if that's your meaning. I guess so :)
No. That is not what I mean. Please read the title again: She is always a woman, like my daughter, mother, sister, or even you if you happen to be a woman. No duplicitous edge to walk on, in most cases.
Well, I am lost then. I'm having trouble drawing a coherent picture of what this thread is about.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
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LuckyR
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by LuckyR »

To my eye, using the Joel lyric in the title is trying to describe the (very dramatic and important) idea of women, when viewed from the perspective of a nonwoman, who is under the influence of love, lust, infatuation for a woman. Obviously women can be just as in love, lust and infatuation with a woman, but my guess is that as a woman herself, the aspect of the experience that encompasses the "mystery" of women (to a nonwoman) would be missing.
"As usual... it depends."
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Astro Cat
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by Astro Cat »

LuckyR wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:22 am To my eye, using the Joel lyric in the title is trying to describe the (very dramatic and important) idea of women, when viewed from the perspective of a nonwoman, who is under the influence of love, lust, infatuation for a woman. Obviously women can be just as in love, lust and infatuation with a woman, but my guess is that as a woman herself, the aspect of the experience that encompasses the "mystery" of women (to a nonwoman) would be missing.
Heh, I've probably blurted out "women" in an exasperated, mystery-affirming way as often as anybody. But then I think it just goes to show people are complex and communication is important.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
gad-fly
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:53 pm
gad-fly wrote: July 5th, 2022, 11:46 pm
Astro Cat wrote: July 5th, 2022, 10:28 pm Well, love and relationships are always a duplicitous edge to walk upon, if that's your meaning. I guess so :)
No. That is not what I mean. Please read the title again: She is always a woman, like my daughter, mother, sister, or even you if you happen to be a woman. No duplicitous edge to walk on, in most cases.
Well, I am lost then. I'm having trouble drawing a coherent picture of what this thread is about.
Sorry to have you confused. Perhaps Jeline Loh in Facebook can explain better why she wrote: She is always a woman. Incidentally, the Beatles sing She is a woman. "always" makes some difference.

Let me try again. If I say she is always a woman, without mentioning her name beforehand as Sheila or Stella, I am giving you my impression of what a typical woman is like, the impression that strikes me most when the term 'woman' is mentioned. My impression is what I have formed from life experience, beyond my control. It is nothing on purpose for or against woman in general.

Compare when some says: They are always politicians, or salesmen.
gad-fly
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Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

LuckyR wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:22 am To my eye, using the Joel lyric in the title is trying to describe the (very dramatic and important) idea of women, when viewed from the perspective of a nonwoman, who is under the influence of love, lust, infatuation for a woman. Obviously women can be just as in love, lust and infatuation with a woman, but my guess is that as a woman herself, the aspect of the experience that encompasses the "mystery" of women (to a nonwoman) would be missing.
I cannot see why Billy Joel's lyric must be from the perspective of a nonwoman. Why not also from a real woman?

As a woman, the mystery of woman would be missed? Perhaps, to some extent, but a woman can experience without understanding. She is always warm, but she is suddenly cool. Why? She will not give in or give out, but she changes her mind. Why?
gad-fly
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by gad-fly »

Astro Cat wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:55 am
Heh, I've probably blurted out "women" in an exasperated, mystery-affirming way as often as anybody. But then I think it just goes to show people are complex and communication is important.
You should never blurt out woman. I know: it has been done by many, even among women, for thousands of years. More the reason to change direction, and pay the price. Woman as housewife, bed fellow, care-taker, or even angels, covered from head to toe? Come on.
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LuckyR
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by LuckyR »

gad-fly wrote: July 6th, 2022, 11:52 am
LuckyR wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:22 am To my eye, using the Joel lyric in the title is trying to describe the (very dramatic and important) idea of women, when viewed from the perspective of a nonwoman, who is under the influence of love, lust, infatuation for a woman. Obviously women can be just as in love, lust and infatuation with a woman, but my guess is that as a woman herself, the aspect of the experience that encompasses the "mystery" of women (to a nonwoman) would be missing.
I cannot see why Billy Joel's lyric must be from the perspective of a nonwoman. Why not also from a real woman?

As a woman, the mystery of woman would be missed? Perhaps, to some extent, but a woman can experience without understanding. She is always warm, but she is suddenly cool. Why? She will not give in or give out, but she changes her mind. Why?
A woman declaring the Joel lyrics about her female lover is possible, of course. It could fit and make sense. Though as a woman herself, presumably it would merely become a list of well understood (by the speaker) qualities. No mystery nor wonder.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: She is always a woman to me

Post by Sculptor1 »

gad-fly wrote: July 5th, 2022, 5:20 pm Watching Nature TV channel, I am absolutely aghast at how mother polar bears are treated in the icy world by their male chauvinist counter-parts. Shame on you. Can you not recollect what your mother had gone through and sacrifice for your sake? Do you have any conscience at all? Next time I see you threatening the weaker gender, I shall shoot you dead with no hesitation.
The strident aggression of the male is the main reason why the species has survived in the most hostile environment on earth.
Male's struggle against each other fighting for the right to tup a female. This ensures that the strongest genes are preserved to the next generation, for the entire species.
It is pointless imposing your personal morality on a situation you do not seem to understand.

Cuddly elephant males are similarly burdened with this role. It is a sad fact that male elephants are shunned from the female herds to roam alone; infused with crippling amounts of testosterone, these "rogue males" have a life of fighting, until they can tup a female, after which its back on its own to live a lonely life.
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