Nick_A wrote: ↑July 15th, 2022, 11:02 amFrom the OP:
"The combination of these two facts — the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it — constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality.
Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes also that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect.
This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings. Whatever formulation of belief or disbelief a man may choose to make, if his heart inclines him to feel this respect, then he in fact also recognizes a reality other than this world's reality. Whoever in fact does not feel this respect is alien to that other reality also." ~ Simone Weil
This isn't a trick question but just trying to get your opinion on the goals of China and its automatons and the potential to receive help from above through higher consciousness however it is felt. Of course atheism will frown on it but the real question is how we envision God in a society of the future? I'll use Einstein to broaden the question.
The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.
Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.
The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.
The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.
How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.
-- Albert Einstein, Religion and Science, NY Times, November 9, 1930
It seems to me that modern society has largely outgrown the religion of fear but still caught up in the religion of morality and its abuses. But at the same time there is a craving for meaning and the sensitive feel the futility you described as Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill only to have it fall back.
Can a person have a cosmic religious feeling leading one to experience the path to human meaning or are we destined to devolve to become automatans?
It seems to me that the experience of awe and wonder must be reintroduced to the young through science and art. Unfortunately it is discouraged in pursuit of imaginary inspired technology.
In these times when atheism is so dominant, how can the young experience awe and wonder to inspire contemplation of the great truths responsible for nature or the body of God leading to the experience of conscience and human obligations to universal purpose?
Universal respect for all humans is impossible without universal respect for all animals, so these are just ideals. There is no way that universal respect for humans is possible, let alone for poor old, reviled and downtrodden animals.
By "automatons" I take it you refer to the trend towards cults of personality and the slavish following and manipulation of deeply unethical human beings. No human should be worshipped. The only entities I see that are worthy of worship are the Sun and the Earth, and to a lesser extent, the Moon. These entities created us and sustain us. I have much sympathy with the reverence of the land by indigenous people. The shift in human attitudes towards the land from sacredness to resources did much to increase human fecundity and wellbeing, and our numbers resulted in increasing objectification of humans as mere profane resources.
China is further along this path than the west, again, by weight of numbers. India, with its grand traditions, has tried to avoid such objectification, but it's increasingly been happening through weight of numbers. You can also tell when people are losing value when a nation is ostensibly enjoying strong economic growth while the average people's standard of living is reducing. When people are part of a multitude, they become "human resources" - "chess pieces", as used and abused by military commanders and monument builders throughout history.
Awe and wonder can come purely from nature, no gods needed. However, in lieu of healthy ecosystems, it's no surprise that people might seek such healthy feelings via imagination. Gods are, of course, a purely subjective phenomenon, a product of imagination that acts as a life hack for those in need of motivation, discipline and excitement. Life can be hard, so "Whatever gets you through the night is alright", as John Lennon sang.
Personally, there is a part of me that resists fooling myself, so I cannot use use a deity as a mind hack. Ironically, my optimism stems from observation, and the fact that "as above, so below" applies throughout nature, including its human component. Many science boffins reject the idea that reality operates in a fractal nature because the fractals are approximate rather than precise. However, the general dynamics are there - aggregation, branching, encapsulation, eversion - approximately re-iterating at different scales. As such, I see humanity as the Earth's equivalent higher brain and spore delivery system, and to achieve the spread of "Earthiness" to other worlds, much automation will be required. Many would question how might a planet be subject to natural selection when it is alone. It's because influence can be internal as well as external, as evidenced in epigenetics and the placebo effect.
However, this seemingly inevitable outcome of Earth sending material to create entities on other world, based on its blueprints, need not guide one's individual actions and preferences. It's too distant. So it comes down to temperament. I personally resist the intrusions of the state into people's private lives, of increasing control and conformism, not because I aim to achieve anything, but because it suits me personally because I am a a bit of a weirdo :)
I resist intrusions and excessive control, but accept that I am swimming against an inevitable tide. Resistance to control may not keep autocrats and would-be autocrats honest (only death will achieve that!) but it does at least act as a brake. Societies are tempered by internal political and social battles conducted in good faith. Disharmony forces issues to be explored more deeply.
Ultimately, your dream of enlightened humanity behaving in an enlightened cooperative manner, not via control, but widespread wisdom, can only be an ideal. Imagine, for a moment, that it was achieved. That everyone was wise and decent and civilised and vegan. If that lasted more than a couple of years before cracks started to appear, I would be surprised. There will
always be malcontents (who may or may not have good reasons) and hubris will always take down those with great power.
You can never have a fantastic society and hold it in place. It will inevitably change, and those accustomed to "the old ways" will tend to decry some changes, as we do.
