Is World Peace Possible?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

"even if we can't prevent the forces of tyranny from prevailing, we can at least "understand the force by which we are crushed." Simone Weil

Almost from the beginnings of wars there have been people gathering in groups or organizations clamoring for world peace but it never happens. For example: https://theowp.org/about-us/
Here at the Organization for World Peace (the OWP) we believe that Peace is Possible and we want to convince people around the world that there are alternatives to war, conflict and violence. We offer critical analysis on key issues , including peace and conflict; foreign affairs and diplomacy; human rights; and environmental degradation. In debating these issues we aim to educate and challenge dominant ways of thinking.

The OWP proposes peaceful alternatives to the status quo of war and violence, proving that there is an alternative path that leads to better, more peaceful outcomes. It is our view that global affairs are not a zero sum game, and that we can all benefit through cooperation, fairness, and peaceful relations.
It sounds good and impresses young college students but somehow if we are honest we see it never comes into practice. In short it isn't wanted. But why? Why is something that is wanted actually not wanted and the bottom line appears to be "might makes right."

I propose that there is a reason why world peace is impossible. If you agree so much the better. If you disagree and insist that world peace is possible through education, please explain why.

Anyhow I'll begin with this Simone Weil perspective:
"The combination of these two facts — the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it — constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality.

Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes also that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect.

This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings. Whatever formulation of belief or disbelief a man may choose to make, if his heart inclines him to feel this respect, then he in fact also recognizes a reality other than this world's reality. Whoever in fact does not feel this respect is alien to that other reality also." ~ Simone Weil
The whole problem according to Simone is the loss of our human power of impartial attention which enables a person to receive from above. Without this power we are drawn to justify ourselves through duality: arguing yes or no. Being fixated on the shadows on the wall in Plato's cave we cannot experience why all people are sacred. It is alien for cave life which argues good and bad. Humanity as a whole cannot look down on itself and verify the foolishness of cave duality. Without this awareness I'm forced to conclude that world peace is impossible. Life in Plato's cave and being fixated on the shadows on the wall assures that humanity as a whole will follow the natural cycles described in Ecclesiastes three concluding with the cycle of war and peace.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Tegularius
Posts: 711
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 12:29 pm "even if we can't prevent the forces of tyranny from prevailing, we can at least "understand the force by which we are crushed." Simone Weil
The people in Ukraine are undoubtedly aware of the forces attempting to crush them. It doesn't take the least bit of philosophy to establish the why's and wherefores. The most effective way to defeat an enemy who has attacked you is to become an organization of terror oneself killing as many of them as possible even if you know you're going to lose. War means killing and those who are most destructive will usually prevail.

Tragic scenario but history has much more to say on that than any philosophy. Clearly it requires only one person to throw the world into chaos. As long as that's the case, eventually the bells will toll the end of the human race as we know it. One can hope to avoid it for as long as possible but impossible to keep avoiding. Inevitably, the big hand and the little hand will conflate to 12:00 o'clock and Plato's cave itself no-longer have an exit.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

Tegularius wrote: July 9th, 2022, 4:32 pm
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 12:29 pm "even if we can't prevent the forces of tyranny from prevailing, we can at least "understand the force by which we are crushed." Simone Weil
The people in Ukraine are undoubtedly aware of the forces attempting to crush them. It doesn't take the least bit of philosophy to establish the why's and wherefores. The most effective way to defeat an enemy who has attacked you is to become an organization of terror oneself killing as many of them as possible even if you know you're going to lose. War means killing and those who are most destructive will usually prevail.

Tragic scenario but history has much more to say on that than any philosophy. Clearly it requires only one person to throw the world into chaos. As long as that's the case, eventually the bells will toll the end of the human race as we know it. One can hope to avoid it for as long as possible but impossible to keep avoiding. Inevitably, the big hand and the little hand will conflate to 12:00 o'clock and Plato's cave itself no-longer have an exit.
So the cycles of war and peace appear inevitable. All the goals of the peace movements and education are futile. But why? Why doesn't our species learn by experience? Is it really so simple and just a matter of the inability of collective humanity to sustain the necessary impartial attention to perceive and sustain a higher more human perspective? But perhaps some believe that education will save the day. On what do they base this belief?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by LuckyR »

Of course it's possible. Out of the last 3400 years, there have been 288 years without war (anywhere in the world), or about 8% of the time.
"As usual... it depends."
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

LuckyR wrote: July 10th, 2022, 1:50 am Of course it's possible. Out of the last 3400 years, there have been 288 years without war (anywhere in the world), or about 8% of the time.
Nature functions in cycles as described in Ecclesiastes 3 including war and peace. This means that wars repeat. There is nothing conscious in wars which is why they repeat as reactions to natural and cosmic influences.

Consider life in the jungle. Don't the cycle of life take place within the cycles of nature like the seasons? The only quality which can oppose nature's ways is consciousness. The OP shows why we don't have it so events in the great collectives Plato called the Beast, repeat as results of natural cycles
A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:

2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Tegularius
Posts: 711
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pmSo the cycles of war and peace appear inevitable. All the goals of the peace movements and education are futile. But why?
Human is as human nature does. Why for example, does one have to plunder, rape and kill civilians as soon as a war is won? From the earliest times these are the unnecessary concomitants of war, the bible itself being a shining example.
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pm Is it really so simple and just a matter of the inability of collective humanity to sustain the necessary impartial attention to perceive and sustain a higher more human perspective?
Well, it hasn't happened yet, has it! It's not a matter of inability; it's one of bloodlust in which the urge to kill is as rampant as the urge to sex; not seldom two sides of the same coin.
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pmBut perhaps some believe that education will save the day. On what do they base this belief?
On one that's completely misguided! If education were the panacea, how come among a few generations of the most educated populations the world has so far seen are we now so screwed-up not just geopolitically among ourselves but managed to make the planet itself a victim...a major if not the main addition to the problems we already have.

A small example as to why education is virtually useless...one you will not like. Why would you, ostensibly an education person be in favor for the likes of a Donald Trump who proved himself to be a consummate piece of human trash in every respect...exactly the kind of toxin least required in human affairs. Why do so many among the educated still cling to him? How does that kind of deviance reflect on the merits of education?

Education is useless if its first priority is not to make you think; there's also very little thinking involved if all one does is consistently repeat the thoughts of others and make oneself gullible in the process!
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

Tegularius wrote: July 10th, 2022, 2:13 pm
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pmSo the cycles of war and peace appear inevitable. All the goals of the peace movements and education are futile. But why?
Human is as human nature does. Why for example, does one have to plunder, rape and kill civilians as soon as a war is won? From the earliest times these are the unnecessary concomitants of war, the bible itself being a shining example.

I agree that it is human nature but can human nature evolve to become more human? Even if it cannot for society itself Plato called the Beast can an individual evolve to become more human? Must everyone become enchanted with the shadows on the wall assuring that wars will cyclically continue.
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pm Is it really so simple and just a matter of the inability of collective humanity to sustain the necessary impartial attention to perceive and sustain a higher more human perspective?
Well, it hasn't happened yet, has it! It's not a matter of inability; it's one of bloodlust in which the urge to kill is as rampant as the urge to sex; not seldom two sides of the same coin.

Is a person born with bloodlust or is it a learned negative emotion that can be outgrown. But do people want to outgrow it? Consider what the entertainment dollar is spent on in society. Isn't it sex and violence.
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pmBut perhaps some believe that education will save the day. On what do they base this belief?
On one that's completely misguided! If education were the panacea, how come among a few generations of the most educated populations the world has so far seen are we now so screwed-up not just geopolitically among ourselves but managed to make the planet itself a victim...a major if not the main addition to the problems we already have.

A small example as to why education is virtually useless...one you will not like. Why would you, ostensibly an education person be in favor for the likes of a Donald Trump who proved himself to be a consummate piece of human trash in every respect...exactly the kind of toxin least required in human affairs. Why do so many among the educated still cling to him? How does that kind of deviance reflect on the merits of education?

Education is useless if its first priority is not to make you think; there's also very little thinking involved if all one does is consistently repeat the thoughts of others and make oneself gullible in the process!
Education as it is practiced in society I agree with you is meaningless and just perpetuates the human condition. If it is oblivous of teaching the skill of impartial conscious attention, the beast remains a beast.

So if we agree that society cannot change. The beast cannot change its spots. what can an individual do for the young in search of meaning when all they are exposed to is indoctrination?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Sy Borg »

LuckyR wrote: July 10th, 2022, 1:50 am Of course it's possible. Out of the last 3400 years, there have been 288 years without war (anywhere in the world), or about 8% of the time.
Beautiful! :lol:

If one wants peace, our unusually restless and lively planet is perhaps not a great place to look. To be alive is to not be at peace, as we all must attend our basic needs by either killing or thwarting other living beings. Not to mention dealing with others that need to harm or thwart us.

To find peace in this solar system, may I suggest Callisto, which has been quiet for billions of years and is safely distant from Jupiter's radiation and the gravity of other "Jovian moons" - but it would have outstanding views! You'd die from lack of oxygen in seconds, of course, but once dead things would probably be pretty peaceful.
Tegularius
Posts: 711
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: July 10th, 2022, 10:39 pm
Tegularius wrote: July 10th, 2022, 2:13 pm
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pmSo the cycles of war and peace appear inevitable. All the goals of the peace movements and education are futile. But why?
Human is as human nature does. Why for example, does one have to plunder, rape and kill civilians as soon as a war is won? From the earliest times these are the unnecessary concomitants of war, the bible itself being a shining example.

I agree that it is human nature but can human nature evolve to become more human? Even if it cannot for society itself Plato called the Beast can an individual evolve to become more human? Must everyone become enchanted with the shadows on the wall assuring that wars will cyclically continue.
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pm Is it really so simple and just a matter of the inability of collective humanity to sustain the necessary impartial attention to perceive and sustain a higher more human perspective?
Well, it hasn't happened yet, has it! It's not a matter of inability; it's one of bloodlust in which the urge to kill is as rampant as the urge to sex; not seldom two sides of the same coin.

Is a person born with bloodlust or is it a learned negative emotion that can be outgrown. But do people want to outgrow it? Consider what the entertainment dollar is spent on in society. Isn't it sex and violence.
Nick_A wrote: July 9th, 2022, 6:23 pmBut perhaps some believe that education will save the day. On what do they base this belief?
On one that's completely misguided! If education were the panacea, how come among a few generations of the most educated populations the world has so far seen are we now so screwed-up not just geopolitically among ourselves but managed to make the planet itself a victim...a major if not the main addition to the problems we already have.

A small example as to why education is virtually useless...one you will not like. Why would you, ostensibly an education person be in favor for the likes of a Donald Trump who proved himself to be a consummate piece of human trash in every respect...exactly the kind of toxin least required in human affairs. Why do so many among the educated still cling to him? How does that kind of deviance reflect on the merits of education?

Education is useless if its first priority is not to make you think; there's also very little thinking involved if all one does is consistently repeat the thoughts of others and make oneself gullible in the process!
Education as it is practiced in society I agree with you is meaningless and just perpetuates the human condition. If it is oblivous of teaching the skill of impartial conscious attention, the beast remains a beast.

So if we agree that society cannot change. The beast cannot change its spots. what can an individual do for the young in search of meaning when all they are exposed to is indoctrination?
That's for the young to sort out for themselves in each generation as it was for every generation in the past. It's always the present which rules and what the events of the period means for them.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

Sy Borg wrote: July 10th, 2022, 11:11 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 10th, 2022, 1:50 am Of course it's possible. Out of the last 3400 years, there have been 288 years without war (anywhere in the world), or about 8% of the time.
Beautiful! :lol:

If one wants peace, our unusually restless and lively planet is perhaps not a great place to look. To be alive is to not be at peace, as we all must attend our basic needs by either killing or thwarting other living beings. Not to mention dealing with others that need to harm or thwart us.

To find peace in this solar system, may I suggest Callisto, which has been quiet for billions of years and is safely distant from Jupiter's radiation and the gravity of other "Jovian moons" - but it would have outstanding views! You'd die from lack of oxygen in seconds, of course, but once dead things would probably be pretty peaceful.
But peace for you is a theoretical impossibility. I am suggesting that without the experience of meaning as explained in the OP by Simone, it remains an impossibility. Why must humanity be fixated on the duality created by shadows oblivious of a higher perspective in which they are experienced as one.

The reason is that Man is not a unified whole but rather a tripartite soul of three parts held together by imagination to make our hypocrisy tolerable for ourselves. For those aware that peace is impossible for the human condition, the question becomes if our species can open to meaning from a higher perspective putting the tripartite soul in balance? Unfortunately it requires impartial conscious attention which only now exists in our being as a potential.

So for the great beast, world peace is an impossibility. Like all other beasts, it follows natural and cosmic cycles. All potentials remain for individuals with the need to be human rather then for justified unbalanced tripartite souls.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

Teg
That's for the young to sort out for themselves in each generation as it was for every generation in the past. It's always the present which rules and what the events of the period means for them.
Yes, this is what happens. It all follows natural and cosmic cycles. Do you really believe the young can find meaning or are the doomed to enter the dualistic battle over yes and no as beasts responding to nature's laws? Perhaps there are exceptions with a dedication for experiential truth greater than their need for justified pleasure.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Good_Egg
Posts: 782
Joined: January 27th, 2022, 5:12 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Good_Egg »

There can be no world peace without better philosophy.

Ask me again once you can reason the Chinese out of claiming Taiwan...
"Opinions are fiercest.. ..when the evidence to support or refute them is weakest" - Druin Burch
Nick_A
Posts: 3364
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by Nick_A »

Good_Egg wrote: July 11th, 2022, 12:04 pm There can be no world peace without better philosophy.

Ask me again once you can reason the Chinese out of claiming Taiwan...
Better philosophy is now defined as a solution to the problem of dualism. For example, as you say people argue over the Chinese claiming Taiwan: yes or no. World peace would only be possible for our species to transcend dualism and being enchanted with the shadows on the wall. It is obvious we cannot but a true seeker of peace considers why it is so and if there is a way out for someone needing meaning rather than dualistic philosophy.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
stevie
Posts: 762
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by stevie »

LuckyR wrote: July 10th, 2022, 1:50 am Of course it's possible. Out of the last 3400 years, there have been 288 years without war (anywhere in the world), or about 8% of the time.
If this statement would be based on generally uncontroversial data in scientific community I would be amazed. And if this would be the case I would be amazed that there have been periods without war.
So for the time being I am neutral about this statement and am far from being amazed.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is World Peace Possible?

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: July 10th, 2022, 11:11 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 10th, 2022, 1:50 am Of course it's possible. Out of the last 3400 years, there have been 288 years without war (anywhere in the world), or about 8% of the time.
Beautiful! :lol:

If one wants peace, our unusually restless and lively planet is perhaps not a great place to look. To be alive is to not be at peace, as we all must attend our basic needs by either killing or thwarting other living beings. Not to mention dealing with others that need to harm or thwart us.

To find peace in this solar system, may I suggest Callisto, which has been quiet for billions of years and is safely distant from Jupiter's radiation and the gravity of other "Jovian moons" - but it would have outstanding views! You'd die from lack of oxygen in seconds, of course, but once dead things would probably be pretty peaceful.
I am sure Callisto is peaceful... and boring.
"As usual... it depends."
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021