Why are Philosophers so disliked?

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stevie
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by stevie »

Sunday66 wrote: July 16th, 2022, 1:46 pm
stevie wrote: July 16th, 2022, 1:38 pm
Sunday66 wrote: July 16th, 2022, 1:36 pm
stevie wrote: July 16th, 2022, 1:33 pm

Philosophizing about philosophy and "philosophers" still is philosophy, isn't it?
No. Just complaining that you don't like philosophy. Weird.
You seem to be obsessed about "like" and "dislike" which are emotions. I prefer philosophy over emotions.
This conversation is pointless and I will no longer participate.
No problem as long as you are not disturbed by "dislike" which is a disturbing emotions. Philosophy is best supported by neutrality or "absence of emotions".
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

gad-fly wrote: July 11th, 2022, 2:18 pm This topic is inspired by Stevie when he wrote: But it appears that philosophical thinking as such is superfluous in terms of everyday life.

Philosophers here and elsewhere are sad, nettlesome, and excitable lots, difficult to get rid off. Either they have no common sense, or else the defiance of commonsense must be a prerequisite in their being.

Say you are angry. That anger arrives in you naturally. A social worker will calm you down; a fellow walker will be by your side; a scientist will explain your symptom; a nurse will treat your discomfort; and so on. But what does a philosopher do? He will tell you to establish your anger. He will ask you to ascertain whether your anger is real, or is it only what you imagine. He will tell you that you are angry because you are conscious. Thank you. I won't be angry if I am dead.

Take another example. If you are hit by a falling apple, the philosopher will ask: Are you sure you are not hitting the apple instead. Since you are so conscious of being hit, your consciousness is real, and you being hit is but an illusion. Does that help?

Most would be polite enough not to hurt a philosopher with such good intention. Thanks but no thanks. Your point is taken. Don't call me. I call you.

Fair, isn't it. If a philosopher has plenty of time to waste, it is none of your business .The trouble; he is wasting your time, to the extent that you would be annoyed. Or shall I say: you don't like him. If you are brave enough, you may look him in the eye, and you would say to him, "Enough. I know."
GF!

I think the example of the apple falling is a good reason to justify the differences between so-called good/not-so-good philosophy. I think a better way to approach that same happenstance would be to question, say, whether human's ability to compute the laws of gravity, in order to evade that falling object "apple", have little to no Darwinian survival advantages in the jungle.

That would make that scenario a bit more intriguing.

With respect to anger and emotions, there are plenty of intriguing concepts relative to human sentience. I think it was David Hume who said:

An opponent of philosophical rationalists, Hume held that passions rather than reason govern human behavior, famously proclaiming that "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions."

Then from there, one could ask questions about, say, the quantitative differences in one's own cognition (quality [qualia] v. quantity, Fact-value distinctions, the metaphysical Will, Voluntarism v. Intellectualism, etc.).

Consider too, that 'disliking' some-thing or some-one is often times a type of 'dogmatic' frustration. Political extremist ideology/frustrating reactions bears this out... . Anyway, as you may know, that too, is nothing new under the sun :lol:
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
gad-fly
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by gad-fly »

3017Metaphysician wrote: July 18th, 2022, 12:13 pm
'disliking' some-thing or some-one is often times a type of 'dogmatic' frustration.
Dislike is but a normal reactional human behavior. Say, you dislike me. You may have some reason, or you may not know why. Are you dogmatic, or are you frustrated? You tell me.
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

gad-fly wrote: July 18th, 2022, 1:27 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: July 18th, 2022, 12:13 pm
'disliking' some-thing or some-one is often times a type of 'dogmatic' frustration.
Dislike is but a normal reactional human behavior. Say, you dislike me. You may have some reason, or you may not know why. Are you dogmatic, or are you frustrated? You tell me.
GF!

Indeed. Often times those who are angry, are also unaware of the reasons for same. For instance, those dogmatic frustrations are often times what drives religious or political angst. Nonetheless, 'dogmatic frustrations' can occur in about anything really. Particularly when one is fixated on a some-thing or just has a sentimental or emotional attachment to something that even transcends logic (irrational).

Generally speaking, some would say feelings are neither right or wrong; they're just feelings.

Anyway, to that end, and perhaps as you suggest, there may be those who are 'intrinsically' unhappy and therefore wish to project their unhappiness onto other's. Or even those who frequently like to vent or rant about a some-thing or some-one. They seem to 'default' to that kind of behavior (dysfunction/pathology) as a form of validation. I'm sure you've seen that... . Again, nothing new under the sun there :lol:
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
gad-fly
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by gad-fly »

3017Metaphysician wrote: July 18th, 2022, 1:46 pm
Indeed. Often times those who are angry, are also unaware of the reasons for same.
Forget about those without reason. The topic is about why philosophers are disliked. Can you you postulate or speculate on what reason?
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

gad-fly wrote: July 18th, 2022, 3:53 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: July 18th, 2022, 1:46 pm
Indeed. Often times those who are angry, are also unaware of the reasons for same.
Forget about those without reason. The topic is about why philosophers are disliked. Can you you postulate or speculate on what reason?
GF!

I'm sorry, I'm struggling with your OP. I provided some possibilities as to generally why some people might not like other people, which typically falls under the domain of cognitive science (psychology) or otherwise the existential human condition (finitude). And, I offered you some suggestions as to what may be driving such 'contempt'. Then, I also offered some alternative approach's to the same query that in-turn might be more beneficial and productive. Apparently you did not receive that well.

To be brutally honest, I'm starting to think your intent of the OP was to vent or rant (I believe you currently have another thread that is similar to this one). I mean, that's ok, but if I were to take your comments seriously ("Philosophers here and elsewhere are sad, nettlesome, and excitable lots, difficult to get rid off. Either they have no common sense, or else the defiance of commonsense must be a prerequisite in their being."), at the very least, it is really counterintuitive considering that you are here on a philosophy site and you are wanting feedback from someone you're 'trying to get rid of'.

You may be projecting your own disdain for philosopher's and perhaps even philosophy in general, not exactly sure (please provide some clarification if you can). Perhaps there is a bit of anxiety towards philosophy/philosophers...? In other words, if you were to say something like 'I think there is a difference between good philosophy and bad philosophy' then state the reasons and provide examples as to how one might go about doing better philosophy, that would be more productive I think.

To your point, I do remember taking philosophy in my freshmen year and depending on the instructor's approach, it may/may not be all that fruitful. I certainly get that. But aside from the fact that to a greater or lessor degree most everyone philosophizes; I think it takes two to tango. Meaning, if you yourself decides to engage in discourse, and you're not feeling validated, it's up to you to turn the discussion around, or simply cut bait.

In summary, much like most things in life, one has to remember that there is no perfect means and/or method or 'person' for that matter. We are all on here practicing philosophy. I certainly do understand the frustration over those who troll threads because they feel threatened in some way. But if the good outweighs the bad, then I would say philosophy is for you. If the bad outweighs the the good, well maybe it's time to reconsider your outlook. I would try to attack the message rather than the messenger. Perhaps you are in need of an attitude adjustment?

Life is good!
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
gad-fly
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by gad-fly »

3017Metaphysician wrote: July 19th, 2022, 9:12 am
You may be projecting your own disdain for philosopher's and perhaps even philosophy in general, not exactly sure

We are all on here practicing philosophy. I certainly do understand the frustration over those who troll threads because they feel threatened in some way. But if the good outweighs the bad, then I would say philosophy is for you. If the bad outweighs the the good, well maybe it's time to reconsider your outlook. I would try to attack the message rather than the messenger. Perhaps you are in need of an attitude adjustment?
The title is "Why are P so disliked?", not "Why I do not like P?" See the difference? I identify the phenomenon, and I could have finished in one sentence: What do you think? But that would be like a kid asking why.

Do I like P? Yes and No. But that is not the issue. I shall keep it from being personal. Excuse me, please.

Do I philosophize? Yes. Do I dislike myself? Honestly: No. Enough, lest the interest is focused on me.

As you have said: there are good sides, and there are bad sides. Sometimes one outweigh the other, sometimes not. Often it is a mood point. Do I like bee? I hate to be stinged, but I like honey. There you are. You can philosophy to your heart's content.

i hope the above clarify some misunderstanding.
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

gad-fly wrote: July 19th, 2022, 12:19 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: July 19th, 2022, 9:12 am
You may be projecting your own disdain for philosopher's and perhaps even philosophy in general, not exactly sure

We are all on here practicing philosophy. I certainly do understand the frustration over those who troll threads because they feel threatened in some way. But if the good outweighs the bad, then I would say philosophy is for you. If the bad outweighs the the good, well maybe it's time to reconsider your outlook. I would try to attack the message rather than the messenger. Perhaps you are in need of an attitude adjustment?
The title is "Why are P so disliked?", not "Why I do not like P?" See the difference? I identify the phenomenon, and I could have finished in one sentence: What do you think? But that would be like a kid asking why.

Do I like P? Yes and No. But that is not the issue. I shall keep it from being personal. Excuse me, please.

Do I philosophize? Yes. Do I dislike myself? Honestly: No. Enough, lest the interest is focused on me.

As you have said: there are good sides, and there are bad sides. Sometimes one outweigh the other, sometimes not. Often it is a mood point. Do I like bee? I hate to be stinged, but I like honey. There you are. You can philosophy to your heart's content.

i hope the above clarify some misunderstanding.
GF!

Yes of course, thanks for clarifying. Remember though, it still doesn't really square because it was you who provided the observations by offering your feelings and perceptions about philosopher's hence: "Philosophers here and elsewhere are sad, nettlesome, and excitable lots, difficult to get rid off. Either they have no common sense, or else the defiance of commonsense must be a prerequisite in their being."

To be consistent with that observation then, only supports the contrary. As you suggested then, the OP really should have read something like: Why do I not like P?

Instead, putting it under the guise of "Why are Philosopher's so disliked" is either projecting one's own bias towards philosopher's (as indicated by your foregoing statement/observations), or being intellectually dishonest looking for validation of your own contempt for all philosopher's. In other words, your OP gives the impression, or at least you seem to be assuming, that there is some sense of 'universal truth' associated with all philosopher's . In this case, that they are all disliked. I don't think your premise(s) are sound or consistent. And since you didn't articulate any of those specific distinctions in your OP, only you know what's behind the statements as one can only assume.

In simple English, it comes across like: "Whaaa, I don't like philosopher's; does anyone else here dislike them the way I do?" To be convincing, you need to support the premise/inference that all philosopher's are disliked. That's all.
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
gad-fly
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by gad-fly »

3017Metaphysician wrote: July 19th, 2022, 1:41 pm
To be consistent with that observation then, only supports the contrary. As you suggested then, the OP really should have read something like: Why do I not like P?

In simple English, it comes across like: "Whaaa, I don't like philosopher's; does anyone else here dislike them the way I do?" To be convincing, you need to support the premise/inference that all philosopher's are disliked. That's all.
No "I" has been mentioned. "I" want to be left alone, please. The OP should be read as is.

Critically examine the title, similar to "Why are politicians so disliked?" It does not infer all politicians or any politician is disliked. If you feel the general impression the public has on politicians, you may be brave enough to say it out, even though you may not agree.

"so" is a trend, not a forced encampment.

I would not say I so like P or not. Admittedly, I am inclined to P, once in a while. I can say no more.
gad-fly
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Re: Why are Philosophers so disliked?

Post by gad-fly »

To be fair, people are not so much to dislike P than to turn away from P, because a P is, more often than not, off-ground, and irrelevant as far as life and living is concerned. He is away from commonsense, to the extent that you would doubt if he has commonsense at all. Say you tell hum an event or incident has occurred, and he would challenge you with utter nonsense:
Are you sure?
Yes,
No, you are not. It is your consciousness.
What is the difference?
You are a consequence of your consciousness. it is more real than you.
What does it matter?
It may cheat you. You better check up.
How?
i am sorry you are not a P like me.
Big deal.

.
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