Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

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UniversalAlien
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by UniversalAlien »

Back to the original question :arrow:
Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?
I see three basic possibilities:

1. All is random and true order is what is impossible :idea:

2. All is order and yes then true randomness is fundamentally impossible :idea:

3. The final, and in my opinion correct, option is that order and chaos are inextricably bound to each other
like Yin and Yang. :idea:

4. If this is true then there is no such thing as true randomness as there is also no such thing as true order :!:
Belindi
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by Belindi »

UniversalAlien wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 1:42 am Back to the original question :arrow:
Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?
I see three basic possibilities:

1. All is random and true order is what is impossible :idea:

2. All is order and yes then true randomness is fundamentally impossible :idea:

3. The final, and in my opinion correct, option is that order and chaos are inextricably bound to each other
like Yin and Yang. :idea:

4. If this is true then there is no such thing as true randomness as there is also no such thing as true order :!:
Yes. And maybe:

3. (a) Randomness is possibility, and possibility is the field from which living awareness draws probability.

and 3.(b) Randomness is wholeness;wholeness must be devoid of value which is selection imposed upon randomness by separate subjects of experience.

and 3(c) Randomness is the Daoist feminine which complements the Daoist masculine, and without which the Daoist masculine would be impossible .
The Spirit of the valley never dies.
They call it wondrous female.
Through the portal of her mystery
Creation ever wells forth.
It lingers like gossamer and seems not to be
Yet when summoned, ever flows freely.
- Laozi’s Daode Jing, verse 6 (translated by Douglas Allchin)
d3r31nz1g3
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by d3r31nz1g3 »

A random result is one in infinity. A random result is randomized from endless possibilities. A random thing is truly random amongst what random things could be rather than.

A random thing results from possibility. A random possibility, a random result. Random things could be rather than.

The random thing that comes in to being has no explanation as towards how that specific random result resulted amongst truly random potentials.

Random, self-evidently, is impossible to explain. If it is random, you cannot explain it. Random is naturally inexplicable.

So true random does not exist.

In fact, since we are HUMAN, a very basic robotical construct, this proves that TRUE RANDOM doesn't exist.

Just like symmetrical human faces.
Belindi
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by Belindi »

d3r31nz1g3 wrote: December 4th, 2022, 5:08 pm A random result is one in infinity. A random result is randomized from endless possibilities. A random thing is truly random amongst what random things could be rather than.

A random thing results from possibility. A random possibility, a random result. Random things could be rather than.

The random thing that comes in to being has no explanation as towards how that specific random result resulted amongst truly random potentials.

Random, self-evidently, is impossible to explain. If it is random, you cannot explain it. Random is naturally inexplicable.

So true random does not exist.

In fact, since we are HUMAN, a very basic robotical construct, this proves that TRUE RANDOM doesn't exist.

Just like symmetrical human faces.
Probability is how we and other intelligent animals can know enough to keep on living. Probability is the basis of common sense, and inductive logic. Probability exists within the frame of how we can know things, which philosophers call epistemology.

By contrast possibility transcends the frame of how we can know things; thus
possibility is not epistemic but ontic. Possibility is like ovum which is inert until sperm of probability fertilises it.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

UniversalAlien wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 1:42 am Back to the original question :arrow:
Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?
I see three basic possibilities:

1. All is random and true order is what is impossible :idea:

2. All is order and yes then true randomness is fundamentally impossible :idea:

3. The final, and in my opinion correct, option is that order and chaos are inextricably bound to each other
like Yin and Yang. :idea:
I'm with you so far... 👍


UniversalAlien wrote: December 2nd, 2022, 1:42 am 4. If this is true then there is no such thing as true randomness as there is also no such thing as true order :!:
Unless randomness and order both exist at different places or times within the Universe? Here is pure chaos; there is pure order; but mostly, it's a mixture of both. The Universe is not homogenous. 🤔🤔🤔 That would be my supposition, until I became persuaded otherwise.
Pattern-chaser

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

d3r31nz1g3 wrote: December 4th, 2022, 5:08 pm A random result is one in infinity. A random result is randomized from endless possibilities. A random thing is truly random amongst what random things could be rather than.

A random thing results from possibility. A random possibility, a random result. Random things could be rather than.

The random thing that comes in to being has no explanation as towards how that specific random result resulted amongst truly random potentials.

Random, self-evidently, is impossible to explain. If it is random, you cannot explain it. Random is naturally inexplicable.
No, the concept of randomness is easy enough to explain, and to understand. It is the actuality of randomness that is your target, I think?
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starsconty
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Re: Is true randomness fundamentally impossible?

Post by starsconty »

I have more thoughts on randomness that I will share in a separate post. In the meantime, I just added some more questions about 'process thought', in that separate thread...let me know what you think over there too... .
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