What characterizes a philosopher

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Sunday66
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Sunday66 »

value wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 3:50 am
gad-fly wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 9:20 pm
value wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 5:32 pm
A task of philosophy may be to explore passable roads in front of the tide.
Like a scout, pilot, or guide?
Like an intellectual pioneer.

Philosopher Aristotle considers a state of philosophical contemplation (eudaimonia) the greatest virtue (highest human good). It is a strive to serve life: the discovery of "good" from which 'value' follows (the act of valuing, truth finding etc). It would be an everlasting quest and thus philosophy (morality) would have no end and would advance into infinity.
Eudaimonia is not contemplation. It means well being.
value
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by value »

Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:13 pmEudaimonia is not contemplation. It means well being.
According to Aristotle, for a human it would be philosophical contemplation (reasoning).

Aristotle and most other ancient philosophers understood it, does not consist of a state of mind or a feeling of pleasure or contentment, as “happiness” (as it is commonly used) implies. For Aristotle, eudaimonia is the highest human good, the only human good that is desirable for its own sake (as an end in itself) rather than for the sake of something else (as a means toward some other end).
...
Aristotle believes that the characteristic function of human beings, that which distinguishes them from all other things, is their ability to reason (philosophical contemplation). Accordingly, “if the function of man is an activity of soul which follows or implies a rational principle,” and if the human good is the good performance of that function, then the “human good turns out to be [rational] activity of soul in accordance with virtue,” or rational activity performed virtuously or excellently (Nichomachean Ethics, Book I, chapter 7).


https://www.britannica.com/topic/eudaimonia
Sunday66
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Sunday66 »

The end of action is happiness. We chose actions as ends in themselves. Thus, eudaimonia is the sense we have of acting for the sake of well being.
Sunday66
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Sunday66 »

value wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:58 pm
Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:13 pmEudaimonia is not contemplation. It means well being.
According to Aristotle, for a human it would be philosophical contemplation (reasoning).

Aristotle and most other ancient philosophers understood it, does not consist of a state of mind or a feeling of pleasure or contentment, as “happiness” (as it is commonly used) implies. For Aristotle, eudaimonia is the highest human good, the only human good that is desirable for its own sake (as an end in itself) rather than for the sake of something else (as a means toward some other end).
...
Aristotle believes that the characteristic function of human beings, that which distinguishes them from all other things, is their ability to reason (philosophical contemplation). Accordingly, “if the function of man is an activity of soul which follows or implies a rational principle,” and if the human good is the good performance of that function, then the “human good turns out to be [rational] activity of soul in accordance with virtue,” or rational activity performed virtuously or excellently (Nichomachean Ethics, Book I, chapter 7).


https://www.britannica.com/topic/eudaimonia
Eudaimonia does not mean contemplation. It refers to action.
value
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by value »

Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:56 pm Eudaimonia does not mean contemplation. It refers to action.
"rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
JDBowden
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by JDBowden »

If can run are they a runner? I would say no. If one runs with frequency as a chosen hobby/sport, are they then a runner? I would say yes.
Does being a professional have anything to do with it? I would say no.

I suppose the same could be applied here with Philosopher vs. philosopher.
Gee
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Gee »

gad-fly wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 9:18 pm
Gee wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 1:15 pm
The problem is that this is not my definition; it is THE definition of the word philosophy. Philosophy (from Greek: φιλοσοφία, philosophia, 'love of wisdom')
It can be very dangerous to define a thing or person according to where it or he comes from.
There is nothing dangerous about the etymology of the word, "philosophy". It can be dangerous to define a person according to where s/he comes from, but there is no valid connection between these different ideas. Do you know what a non sequitur is? Because you seem to use them a lot. You might want to look into that if you are interested in philosophy.
gad-fly wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 9:18 pm I am not here about to engage in argument or word-mincing. I do not imply that you are. I welcome your inclusion of a philosopher's characteristics as being true and honest, but such characteristics should also be shared by scientist, teacher, artist, and so on. Don't you think so?
No, I don't think so. I studied what I called the "should be" ideology in my early twenties and found that it was mostly a way to force a person's own opinions on a variety of other people and subjects. Since it has little to do with truth or reality, I learned to be wary of that concept.
gad-fly wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 9:18 pm Back to the topic. What characteristics would you suggest to mark out a philosopher from the rest?
Well, there is one thing that I did not consider, and that is that a philosopher has the ability to recognize truth. One can not search out truths if one can not recognize them, so I think that is a fundamental characteristic of a philosopher -- and I think some are born with it, others are not.

Just as a song writer seems to understand and recognize what notes can be sung or played in what order or sequence in order to solicit a specific emotional response. Or an artist can know and recognize what colors and shapes will provide a painting with the desired effect. A scientist is just a philosopher, who uses and recognizes a different methodology. I have met natural born teachers, who have a wonderful ability to help others learn and understand new concepts, even though the teacher has had no training in educating others.

I think that these people are born with these abilities and higher education can enhance their skills. On the other hand, if they do not have natural abilities, they will not be much better than average no matter how high a degree they achieve in teaching, art, science, or philosophy. Probably in other studies also.

Gee
gad-fly
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by gad-fly »

in dictionary;
Philosophy - the rational investigation of being, knowledge, and right conduct.
Philosophize - to make philosophical pronouncements and speculations.

I would say that: To philosophize is to think deeply before serious contemplation on the meaning and justification of being, and on the value of being with respect to its demand, award, and gratification.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Pattern-chaser »

gad-fly wrote: July 21st, 2022, 10:35 pm What characterizes a philosopher? Think about that.
Gee wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 1:15 pm Chewy already answered that; "Philosophy (as many see it, including me) requires a serious attempt at honesty."
You can not find truth if you can not be honest. A philosopher must be honest, which is not very complicated, but few people can manage it. A philosopher must also have integrity because without it, s/he will lose his/her honesty. I think that Chewy is a philosopher.
"What characterizes a philosopher"

Yes, I agree. In short, what makes a philosopher is honesty, curiosity and a love of wisdom,


...and maybe imagination?
Pattern-chaser

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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Pattern-chaser »

value wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:19 am "rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
I wonder if seeing philosophy as a search for understanding is clearer than a search for truth, which is a rather vague quest (IMO)?
Pattern-chaser

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Sunday66
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Sunday66 »

value wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:19 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:56 pm Eudaimonia does not mean contemplation. It refers to action.
"rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
No, time for you to read Aristotle. He explains it. You're far off.
gad-fly
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by gad-fly »

Sunday66 wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:32 am
value wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:19 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:56 pm Eudaimonia does not mean contemplation. It refers to action.
"rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
No, time for you to read Aristotle. He explains it. You're far off.
For our benefit, can you quote Aristotle and others if necessary, to support your argument. Merely stating and repeating your point is not sufficient. You can do better.
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chewybrian
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by chewybrian »

value wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:19 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:56 pm Eudaimonia does not mean contemplation. It refers to action.
"rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
I understand the stoic version of eudaimonia, not so much the take directly from Aristotle. In that light, eudaimonia is neither contemplation nor action. It is more a state of being that arises from contemplation followed by right action. The would be philosopher searches for truth, as you say, and then acts rationally upon the implications of what he finds; inevitably, if he does this, he acts with virtue. He approaches wisdom, justice, courage and temperance. As a result, he approaches the state of eudaimonia, which might be said to be "living well". According to the stoics, if you can't act with virtue, you can't find or reach eudaimonia. If you reach a state in which you are living virtuously, then you will inevitably find eudaimonia. Virtue is both necessary and sufficient (which does not mean it is easy).
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
Sunday66
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by Sunday66 »

gad-fly wrote: July 26th, 2022, 11:52 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:32 am
value wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:19 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:56 pm Eudaimonia does not mean contemplation. It refers to action.
"rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
No, time for you to read Aristotle. He explains it. You're far off.
For our benefit, can you quote Aristotle and others if necessary, to support your argument. Merely stating and repeating your point is not sufficient. You can do better.
You never read Aristotle, correct?
gad-fly
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Re: What characterizes a philosopher

Post by gad-fly »

Sunday66 wrote: July 26th, 2022, 7:33 pm
gad-fly wrote: July 26th, 2022, 11:52 am
Sunday66 wrote: July 25th, 2022, 11:32 am
value wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:19 am

"rational activity performed virtuously" is equal to philosophical contemplation because philosophy can be described as a search for truth.
No, time for you to read Aristotle. He explains it. You're far off.
For our benefit, can you quote Aristotle and others if necessary, to support your argument. Merely stating and repeating your point is not sufficient. You can do better.
You never read Aristotle, correct?
That is not the point. This forum is not meant to grade and compare personal achievement, nor to allow shouting match among stubborn contestants. This forum channels influence and persuasion by reasoning.

you have read Aristotle more than anyone else, or at least, more than me? I shall have my lips sealed.
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