What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
- JackDaydream
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What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Is the finding of answers possible objectively or is it about attachments to ideas? Are you prepared to admit that you are wrong and is it important to be right in the logic or assumptions of your approach to philosophy? To what extent is possible to be 'right' or certain in one's approach? Or, how does one live with the anguish of one's uncertainty?
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
I like it when my idea is not as good as someone else's. I sometimes try to explain when someone on the forum seems not to understand something that I think I may be able to explain.I like to do this because trying to explain something to someone else is a good way to find out if my idea makes sense.
- The Beast
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
I understand your feelings. However, are you advocating taking the word argumentative out of the forum description? Your favored in past posts a deliberative form of literary style as you started many of your posts with “it is important that… and maybe a warning against the idea of… One author which motivates me is Valle Inclan whose style is the “esperpento” which is a variation if any of Aristophanes.
I thought of a post which I considered a poor exercise in logic, and I saw your comment. I could of make an "esperpento". Maybe next time.
- JackDaydream
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
I definitely feel that trying to explain someone else is a good way of trying to see if ideas make sense, as it involves breaking down the essentials of assumptions and arguments. It does seem that philosophy is a minority interest, although I do try to discuss it with people in real life but they often seem a bit perplexed because they don't read much on philosophy at all. A few years ago, I did find someone I worked with who did have similar reading interests and I can remember during breaks we used to chat about philosophy ideas and the other staff seemed a bit astonished, which was funny.Belindi wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 11:21 am I use the philosophy forums partly because philosophy is a minority interest and I like philosophy conversations. I have been curious about ideas for most of my life. The first occasion I can remember is when my older brother then a student at the university told me about solipsism which made me laugh.
I like it when my idea is not as good as someone else's. I sometimes try to explain when someone on the forum seems not to understand something that I think I may be able to explain.I like to do this because trying to explain something to someone else is a good way to find out if my idea makes sense.
I do like to learn from others on the forum and often this involves reading rather replying always. I just get a bit fed up when people keep insisting on a view over and over again. Even if I think that I am 'right' I prefer to move on rather than keep deliberating a point because it seems like a drain on my time and energy. I find life fairly difficult, with so many stresses, and just wish to approach it all in a balanced way.
- JackDaydream
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
I am not wishing for the word 'argumentive' to be removed from the forum. Philosophy does involve the dialogue of different voices and perspectives. If there were no opposites of perspectives ideas may become a hazy blur. I guess that at times it does seem like winning arguments and proving a point. I am actually very critical of my own thinking, so I probably have more arguments going on in my head. Rational thinking is an art in itself, especially in gaining clarity. Nevertheless, I am not sure that ideas do come down to logic entirely because in many ways it may be that people choose the ideas which work for them. This may be a mixture of pragmatism and the psychological aspects of beliefs and philosophies.The Beast wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 11:29 am Hey Jack.
I understand your feelings. However, are you advocating taking the word argumentative out of the forum description? Your favored in past posts a deliberative form of literary style as you started many of your posts with “it is important that… and maybe a warning against the idea of… One author which motivates me is Valle Inclan whose style is the “esperpento” which is a variation if any of Aristophanes.
I thought of a post which I considered a poor exercise in logic, and I saw your comment. I could of make an "esperpento". Maybe next time.
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Good. But it might benefit many of our discussions to indulge more in co-operative argumentation, instead of debate-like, point-scoring, adversarial argumentation…?JackDaydream wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:15 pm I am not wishing for the word 'argumentive' to be removed from the forum.
"Who cares, wins"
- LuckyR
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Sextus wrote:1.The Main Difference between the Philosophies
When people search for something, the likely outcome is that either they find
it or, not finding it, they accept that it cannot be found, or they continue to search.
So also in the case of what is sought in philosophy, I think, some people have
claimed to have found the truth, others have asserted that it cannot be
apprehended, and others are still searching. Those who think that they have
found it are the Dogmatists, .... The followers of ... have asserted that it
cannot be apprehended. The Skeptics continue to search. Hence it is with reason
that the main types of philosophy are thought to be three in number: the
Dogmatic, the Academic, and the Skeptic. ...
- JackDaydream
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:46 pmGood. But it might benefit many of our discussions to indulge more in co-operative argumentation, instead of debate-like, point-scoring, adversarial argumentation…?JackDaydream wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:15 pm I am not wishing for the word 'argumentive' to be removed from the forum.
It is rather unfortunate that discussion of ideas may be almost a question of point scoring, or even about quantity of posts, as if so many make a position valid. It is linked to the art of persuasion and in life the continual bombardment of messages in the media probably plays a large influence, especially on a subliminal level.
- JackDaydream
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
It is interesting to consider to what extent people's ideas and views are based on logic or life experiences. It may be that being pushed by difficult personal experience lead a person to question and modify beliefs and question deeply. If my own experiences in life were much smoother I would probably not be reading and thinking about philosophy in the way I do. Even right now, I wrote this thread and another after a big shock. Last Friday, I gave a landlord a cheque with a view to moving into a room. I went, as arranged to pick up the keys and the landlord informed me that he lost my cheque and that the room is not available yet. I don't know what to make of it..LuckyR wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 1:03 pm I arrived at my worldview through the accumulation of life experience. Hearing different views than my current summation is part of that life experience and will alter parts of my worldview, though since it is a small fraction of my life experience, in a small amount. It is naive to think a successfully made argument will or should change another's view dramatically, rather incrementally.
Generally, I would say that life experiences contribute so much to the way in which we modify beliefs. Going right back to when I was a teenager, it was always the knocks and blows which led me to think and question deeply. I once remember telling a woman I knew how I had questioned critically the Catholic ideas which I had grown up with and she said, But that is such hard work.' It may be that difficult experiences challenge taken for granted assumptions and may initiate deeper analysis which may never occur otherwise. In other words, difficult experiences may lead beyond complacency of the unexamined life. It is hard to know if this is about psychological aspects of coping only or about needing foundations of thinking which are based on inadequate logic and rationality.
- JackDaydream
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Sextus's outlook is useful in thinking about dogmatiism, skepticism and truth. I wonder to what extent the longevity of the quest is important. Some may find that a brief period is sufficient but others may find that it is an ongoing one throughout life. The role of academic ideas is a complex part of this because the ethos of academia can be a cloak of validity. I even remember being on a brief course in which any point had to be backed up on the basis of evidence-based research. However, it was rather shallow from a philosophy point of view because the evidence didn't have to be evaluated critically. Simply because ideas or evidence had been published was considered to give ideas credibility. In this way, academic knowledge and research can be a form of pseudo form of knowledge and it is possible to hide behind it in giving validation to specific ideas and viewpoints.stevie wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 1:20 pmSextus wrote:1.The Main Difference between the Philosophies
When people search for something, the likely outcome is that either they find
it or, not finding it, they accept that it cannot be found, or they continue to search.
So also in the case of what is sought in philosophy, I think, some people have
claimed to have found the truth, others have asserted that it cannot be
apprehended, and others are still searching. Those who think that they have
found it are the Dogmatists, .... The followers of ... have asserted that it
cannot be apprehended. The Skeptics continue to search. Hence it is with reason
that the main types of philosophy are thought to be three in number: the
Dogmatic, the Academic, and the Skeptic. ...
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Hopefully you enjoyed the inspiration caused by my quote.JackDaydream wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 2:14 pmSextus's outlook is useful in thinking about dogmatiism, skepticism and truth. I wonder to what extent the longevity of the quest is important. Some may find that a brief period is sufficient but others may find that it is an ongoing one throughout life. The role of academic ideas is a complex part of this because the ethos of academia can be a cloak of validity. I even remember being on a brief course in which any point had to be backed up on the basis of evidence-based research. However, it was rather shallow from a philosophy point of view because the evidence didn't have to be evaluated critically. Simply because ideas or evidence had been published was considered to give ideas credibility. In this way, academic knowledge and research can be a form of pseudo form of knowledge and it is possible to hide behind it in giving validation to specific ideas and viewpoints.stevie wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 1:20 pmSextus wrote:1.The Main Difference between the Philosophies
When people search for something, the likely outcome is that either they find
it or, not finding it, they accept that it cannot be found, or they continue to search.
So also in the case of what is sought in philosophy, I think, some people have
claimed to have found the truth, others have asserted that it cannot be
apprehended, and others are still searching. Those who think that they have
found it are the Dogmatists, .... The followers of ... have asserted that it
cannot be apprehended. The Skeptics continue to search. Hence it is with reason
that the main types of philosophy are thought to be three in number: the
Dogmatic, the Academic, and the Skeptic. ...
- JackDaydream
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
Yes, I will keep the idea of the dogmatic, skeptic and academic as a source of inspiration for thinking about the way in which knowledge and ideas are approached as a source of inspiration, because I most definitely need inspiration as a basis for thinking clearly about life and ideas. The three concepts may be useful in thinking about the nature of uncertainty.stevie wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 3:11 pmHopefully you enjoyed the inspiration caused by my quote.JackDaydream wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 2:14 pmSextus's outlook is useful in thinking about dogmatiism, skepticism and truth. I wonder to what extent the longevity of the quest is important. Some may find that a brief period is sufficient but others may find that it is an ongoing one throughout life. The role of academic ideas is a complex part of this because the ethos of academia can be a cloak of validity. I even remember being on a brief course in which any point had to be backed up on the basis of evidence-based research. However, it was rather shallow from a philosophy point of view because the evidence didn't have to be evaluated critically. Simply because ideas or evidence had been published was considered to give ideas credibility. In this way, academic knowledge and research can be a form of pseudo form of knowledge and it is possible to hide behind it in giving validation to specific ideas and viewpoints.stevie wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 1:20 pmSextus wrote:1.The Main Difference between the Philosophies
When people search for something, the likely outcome is that either they find
it or, not finding it, they accept that it cannot be found, or they continue to search.
So also in the case of what is sought in philosophy, I think, some people have
claimed to have found the truth, others have asserted that it cannot be
apprehended, and others are still searching. Those who think that they have
found it are the Dogmatists, .... The followers of ... have asserted that it
cannot be apprehended. The Skeptics continue to search. Hence it is with reason
that the main types of philosophy are thought to be three in number: the
Dogmatic, the Academic, and the Skeptic. ...
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
...or even at all? Changing people's minds is a very different thing from presenting a soundly-founded argument. Ask Trump how we should do the former, but steer well clear of him if you want to know about the latter!
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: What Does it Mean to Be 'Right' or 'Wrong' in Philosophy?
It's important to identify the persuader as a good or alternatively a bad source. Pessimists are more likely than optimists to identify bad sources.JackDaydream wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 1:46 pmPattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:46 pmGood. But it might benefit many of our discussions to indulge more in co-operative argumentation, instead of debate-like, point-scoring, adversarial argumentation…?JackDaydream wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:15 pm I am not wishing for the word 'argumentive' to be removed from the forum.
It is rather unfortunate that discussion of ideas may be almost a question of point scoring, or even about quantity of posts, as if so many make a position valid. It is linked to the art of persuasion and in life the continual bombardment of messages in the media probably plays a large influence, especially on a subliminal level.
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