Money = Freedom

[Elephant]

I'm not going against what's been said here by all.

I just want to add another perspective to this. I'm not gonna lie -- money brings excitement in life, and " freedom". I don't even know how freedom is defined here. I guess "freedom" means the ordinary definition of being able to travel, buy a house, buy food, car. To me these are good things to have.

But money does not, and cannot, relieve a person of their demons -- bad health, bad genes, cynicism, narcissism.

Imagine this. A professor in McGill U was 94 at the time of her broadcasted interview. Imagine this age. Most people would be dead by that age, but she was a full time, tenured professor. The average retirement age is 65. She outlived those by about 30 years. Do you know what 30 years means? -- another working life! She had about 2.5 times to earn a retirement savings when most people have only one. Was she in any way not free? No! She was absolutely free because she was given a good gene to work a very long working life which she enjoyed, btw.

[Ecurb]

I'm not going against what's been said here by all.

I just want to add another perspective to this. I'm not gonna lie -- money brings excitement in life, and " freedom". I don't even know how freedom is defined here. I guess "freedom" means the ordinary definition of being able to travel, buy a house, buy food, car. To me these are good things to have.

But money does not, and cannot, relieve a person of their demons -- bad health, bad genes, cynicism, narcissism.

Imagine this. A professor in McGill U was 94 at the time of her broadcasted interview. Imagine this age. Most people would be dead by that age, but she was a full time, tenured professor. The average retirement age is 65. She outlived those by about 30 years. Do you know what 30 years means? -- another working life! She had about 2.5 times to earn a retirement savings when most people have only one. Was she in any way not free? No! She was absolutely free because she was given a good gene to work a very long working life which she enjoyed, btw.

A lack of freedom (which all responsible jobs entail) is not necessarily a bad thing. When people get married they vow to cleave unto their spouse and none other. That clearly limits their freedom, but we cannot assume it reduces happiness, or satisfaction, or any other sort of human pleasure. YOur professor friend limited her freedom. She had to be in class every Tuesday at 10:00. She was not "free' to be elsewhere. But since she liked teaching the class, she voluntarily limited her freedom. Nonetheless, she was less free than she would have been if she had no job.

It's interesting how some words are freighted with emotional resonance such that we want to see them as entirely positive. "Freedom" is such a word. But laws limit freedom; duties limit freedom; responsibilites limit freedom -- and it is right and proper that they do.

[Elephant]

A lack of freedom (which all responsible jobs entail) is not necessarily a bad thing. When people get married they vow to cleave unto their spouse and none other. That clearly limits their freedom, but we cannot assume it reduces happiness, or satisfaction, or any other sort of human pleasure. YOur professor friend limited her freedom. She had to be in class every Tuesday at 10:00. She was not "free' to be elsewhere. But since she liked teaching the class, she voluntarily limited her freedom. Nonetheless, she was less free than she would have been if she had no job.

It's interesting how some words are freighted with emotional resonance such that we want to see them as entirely positive. "Freedom" is such a word. But laws limit freedom; duties limit freedom; responsibilites limit freedom -- and it is right and proper that they do.

You're forgetting one thing. The professor could quit anytime. She had accumulated wealth already. No one was keeping her there but herself. Whereas, a married person, let alone a stay-at-home parent could not quit being a parent, or their home because they would have no money. They could get a divorce, but there's still the children as their responsibility, and the money as something to worry about.

[LuckyR]

I'm not going against what's been said here by all.

I just want to add another perspective to this. I'm not gonna lie -- money brings excitement in life, and " freedom". I don't even know how freedom is defined here. I guess "freedom" means the ordinary definition of being able to travel, buy a house, buy food, car. To me these are good things to have.

But money does not, and cannot, relieve a person of their demons -- bad health, bad genes, cynicism, narcissism.

Imagine this. A professor in McGill U was 94 at the time of her broadcasted interview. Imagine this age. Most people would be dead by that age, but she was a full time, tenured professor. The average retirement age is 65. She outlived those by about 30 years. Do you know what 30 years means? -- another working life! She had about 2.5 times to earn a retirement savings when most people have only one. Was she in any way not free? No! She was absolutely free because she was given a good gene to work a very long working life which she enjoyed, btw.

A lack of freedom (which all responsible jobs entail) is not necessarily a bad thing. When people get married they vow to cleave unto their spouse and none other. That clearly limits their freedom, but we cannot assume it reduces happiness, or satisfaction, or any other sort of human pleasure. YOur professor friend limited her freedom. She had to be in class every Tuesday at 10:00. She was not "free' to be elsewhere. But since she liked teaching the class, she voluntarily limited her freedom. Nonetheless, she was less free than she would have been if she had no job.

It's interesting how some words are freighted with emotional resonance such that we want to see them as entirely positive. "Freedom" is such a word. But laws limit freedom; duties limit freedom; responsibilites limit freedom -- and it is right and proper that they do.

This was the exact thought process I went through when I made the decision to retire. I loved my work and it paid great and it was very easy to do (after 30 years, it had better be!). However, I realized that it wasn't about getting away from something I hated (since I loved it), it was about doing other things I also loved but couldn't do because of work.

[stevie]

Hey

A friend of mine recently told me that, "money is the pathway to freedom."

This is his personal view of everything. It took me back a little... What do you all think of this?

It appears correct because it says "pathway to freedom", it doen't say "is freedom". Financial/economic independence is the prerequisite for the realization of an optimal degree of personal freedom, i.e. it isn't the cause of freedom because depending on individual mental characteristics one may have much money but still be very unfree but given the necessary mental characteristics if one doesn't have money personal freedom is likely to fail due to financial/economic dependence.

[JDBowden]

...$40,000 USD/year is the magic level of happiness. Anything below, you struggle to survive; anything above, is just "extra." Thoughts on this?

It looks to be a rather silly idea, stated with zero justification.

Just stating what I read:

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/fkkl45e ... a9c57f59c1
https://truthsofbeing20.weebly.com/the- ... -happiness
https://80000hours.org/articles/money-and-happiness/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/busines ... -1.1185813
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... comes-dear
https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/re ... ction.html

[EricPH]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

[Ecurb]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

Money cannot cure Parkinson's disease, and neither can L-dopa. Freedom does not necessarily lead to happiness or contentment. Why would it? In fact, contentment seems to be enhanced by responsibilities -- like families -- which limit freedom. In Durkheim's famous study, suicide rates were correlated to "anomie" -- a sense of normlessness. Duties (which limit freedom) may very well help prevent suicides.

[AverageBozo]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

Money cannot cure Parkinson's disease, and neither can L-dopa. Freedom does not necessarily lead to happiness or contentment. Why would it? In fact, contentment seems to be enhanced by responsibilities -- like families -- which limit freedom. In Durkheim's famous study, suicide rates were correlated to "anomie" -- a sense of normlessness. Duties (which limit freedom) may very well help prevent suicides.

Your mention of contentment reminds me of the old saw, “Ignorance is bliss”. It would suggest that being free of responsibility is a path toward happiness. Probably what makes duty satisfying is the successful accomplishment of tasks more so than the responsibility itself. In any case, freedom from worry and sadness would be a valuable state.

[Ecurb]

Your mention of contentment reminds me of the old saw, “Ignorance is bliss”. It would suggest that being free of responsibility is a path toward happiness. Probably what makes duty satisfying is the successful accomplishment of tasks more so than the responsibility itself. In any case, freedom from worry and sadness would be a valuable state.

Freedom has obvious value. I've just been pointing out that sometimes people voluntarily choose to limit their freedom, and sometimes their choices are reasonable and rational. For example, some people don't want to have children because it will limit their freedom. And some parents say that having children (although it limits freedom, and costs money) is their greatest joy.

[Sculptor1]

Money is a ball and chain

[LuckyR]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

Yet more evidence that once above a certain comfortable level ADDITIONAL money does not create more happiness. But I stand by the idea that lack of money below a certain level creates unhappiness.

[JDBowden]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

Yet more evidence that once above a certain comfortable level ADDITIONAL money does not create more happiness. But I stand by the idea that lack of money below a certain level creates unhappiness.

I have been saying this with the amount being $40,000

[AverageBozo]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

Yet more evidence that once above a certain comfortable level ADDITIONAL money does not create more happiness. But I stand by the idea that lack of money below a certain level creates unhappiness.

I have been saying this with the amount being $40,000

Lucky, I have heard, as you said, that there’s a maximum beyond which there’s no effect on contentment, and a minimum below which happiness is hard come by.

JD, I think that minimum level is relative both to the economic environment and to the individual’s perception. Once the perception is that basic needs are met (e.g., food, clothing, shelter and safety) the minimum level has been attained.

[LuckyR]

Robbin Williams was a wealthy man, but he took his own life. It seems money could not buy him the freedom to be the man he wanted to be.

Yet more evidence that once above a certain comfortable level ADDITIONAL money does not create more happiness. But I stand by the idea that lack of money below a certain level creates unhappiness.

I have been saying this with the amount being $40,000

It isn't about numbers, it is about what constitutes necessities within a social group and what the cost is of those necessities in that economic area and time, which of course will vary, sometimes wildly.