Authenticity and Identity:What Does it Mean to Find Your 'True' Self?

[JackDaydream]

Sculptor1

After I finished writing I just thought that the work of sculpture is a little bit like the process of sculpture work. It is an ongoing process and not an end. The problem may be that many people think of finding oneself as being like an end as fitting in and it is not that simple. I guess that art therapy itself looks at the therapeutic expression being about self knowledge with the art as the medium and the therapist as facilitating that journey.

[JackDaydream]

The senses are complex and the means of perceiving and experiencing reality. Some people are more comfortable with being touched than others. The one aspect which I liked about the lockdown restrictions was guidelines about measures for distancing as I don't like people invading my body space when I am walking around in shops and in the street.

Different people are more tuned into different senses and in different ways. I do have some eye problems but in my right eye which has worse vision than the other I see a lot of extremely interesting imagery when I close my eyes. Apparently, there is a reason for this, and it is connected to the phosphenes in the retina. But, the outer and inner mind's eye are both important. Oliver Sacks is a very important writer for thinking about all the unusual phenomena of the senses, including synthasaesia. I have read that synthasaesia is connected physiologically to the way in which the eyes and ears develop from the same nobule initially. However, the whole idea of perception by the senses raises so much question about whether the self is merely the body or whether there are any senses which go beyond the physical basis of sensory perception.

Simple, good householder. If wishing to involve the whole world into it, how ever able to get ride of gross misperceptions, delusions.
Would good householder be able to approach the questions simple, one after another, while simply look at stage.

What do you see as the main sources of delusion? Is it merely the reliance on the senses or about ideas?

Yes, also delusion has it's cause, does not have no.

...What is the supportive condition of ignorance?

The five obstructions (Nivarana) is the reply. Bhikkhus, I say, even the five obstructions have a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for the five obstructions? The three misbehaviours (by body, speech, mind) is the reply. Bhikkhus, I say, even the three misbehaviours have a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for the three misbehaviours? Lack of restraint in the mental faculties is the reply Bhikkhus, I say, even the lack of restraint in the mental faculties has a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for the lack of restraint in the mental faculties? Lack of mindful awareness is the reply. Bhikkhus, I say, even the lack of mindful awareness has a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for the lack of mindful awareness? Unwise attention is the reply.

Bhikkhus, I say, even unwise attention has a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for unwise attention? Lack of faith is the reply Bhikkhus, I say, even lack of faith has a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for lack of faith? Listening to the incorrect Teaching is the reply. Bhikkhus, I say, even listening to the incorrect Teaching has a supportive condition. What is the supportive condition for listening to the incorrect Teaching? Associating non-Great beings is the reply.

Proper association is the root condition for awakening, good householder. The five evil friends (nivarana, outwardly, inwardly) the reason for staying blind.

Proper attention, of which might association assist, as well as listening to the truth, is cause of right view, right understanding arising.

I definitely see working on the mind as an important aspect of authentic living. It is not always easy as so much can get in the way in distractions. There are many different meditation techniques, including ones focusing on mindfulness which includes the senses and watching thoughts rather than just following whims. Sometimes I feel that I am progressing and some life event sets me back. Balancing the inner aspects and the outer ones may be essential in the process of self mastery, which may be an important part of authenticity.

[Belindi]

Self control uses a lot of energy, and so personality change or adaptation to external forces takes place when the individual is wide awake, well rested, and in good general health.

I imply that the learned component of personality does change while the biological component of personality is constant.

Definitely full attention and serious effort is required for real change. Initially, the behavior or desire you wish to suppress has become the default, so you are likely to revert to it as soon as you face any kind of struggle, or even when your attention wanes.

I'm not so sure about the 'constant' part, or how in fact to decide what part is learned or biological. When I was overweight, I had a strong desire to eat sugary foods. I swore them off in an attempt to lose weight, and discovered down the line that I no longer desired them. Perhaps I only got past a tolerance level for sugar, but subjectively it feels like the biological desire was strong and is now gone entirely. I don't have to 'fight myself' to avoid sugar. Certainly there was a strong learned aspect, as I saw the benefit from avoiding sugary foods.

I think the proper goal of this existential growth should in fact be not just to gain control over desires you don't want to act upon, but to negate the desires entirely and replace them with something better.

Sartrean authenticity depends on the individual's sense of responsibility towards her own actions and beliefs. Some personalities are introverted and healthily neurotic and other personalities are carefree and reactive. The former are more likely to conform to Sartre's idea of authenticity. (Which I may say is perilously close to Free Will).

So you are saying I'm not weird, just 'healthily neurotic'? I can accept that. I suppose it is easier to introspect if you are predisposed to it, and tougher if you are inclined to seek approval from others. I know a few people for whom a party is like a drug, when it's more of a mild nightmare for me.

Learning a good habit is certainly better than having a struggle with the conscience each time a temptation appears! Congratulations. I'd call that a win for reflection over reaction.

Reflection and consequent use of reason typifies the introverted and healthily neurotic, while reaction tends to pertain to extroverted and unthinking people. You say "parties". There are several sorts of parties and I imagine you refer to parties where there is an expectation for everybody to be uniformly happy and more noisy than normal. Some like to be where the midst of noisy human company is the norm and they feel lonely otherwise, while others don't depend so much on company and prefer solitude and quiet.

[Sculptor1]

Yes, and when you come down the mountain, you will immediately see what parts of you are being requested and required to accommodate the rest of humanity - be that your employer, family, friends and the pollical structures. Having been separated from them you can more clearly see the roles you have been playing and are being expected to play.
But whilst you are in the roles it is harder to see them for what they are.

I am still on top of the mountain because my life changed so much during lockdown because I stopped working and had to move and still need to move again. I want to find my authentic pathway because I feel 'stuck' at the top of the mountain. When you come away from the social roles it can seem so different from being caught up in them and daily routines. The crossroads can be interesting but challenging because it can be hard to see the directions forwards, especially as life is changing so much and there is so much uncertainty.

I was also slammed by the lockdown.
Not only has the prospect of further teaching sculpture been dashed, I have also lost my mojo for my own sculptural efforts.

I think there might be a problem with the way this thread is being conceived.

There is no "true self", It's not something you just find. Going up the mountain is away to shed the ossification of the needs and expectations of others, to find you individual substrate. But we are change and without growth we are dead.
Thus the "true self" is not a static object but an ever changing work in progress. You have to keep moulding it.
They say that a work of art is never finished by the artist, but just abandoned.
Our own personal work of art can only be abandoned at death, so we have to keep reshaping, adding and subtracting.

I didn't realise that you really do sculpture and teaching it. At one point I was training to be an art therapist and knew someone well who taught sculpture and exhibited work. I didn't manage to finish my therapy training because it was difficult, as I was working as a mental health nurse at the same time.

I think that life has changed so much after lockdown and it has led to a lot of changes which were coming along previously on a lot slower pace. I feel that I have changed quite a lot and find it harder to do the more mundane tasks. I love art and creative writing but the problem it is not easy to make a living that way. People I know who spend their lives in the arts frequently have to teach in order to survive financially.

The people who can do a really mundane job, like in a factory, are probably fortunate. It is not that I consider myself above such work, but simply that I think that I would do it so badly. It is a hard time because so many lives have changed and there is so much competition. Everything is about applying online and I barely even get any replies to applications. I am thinking of doing an evening course in art, possibly in portrait painting and, perhaps, do some volunteer work and voluntary work can help in the long run.

Capitalism is a system of mental destruction, and wealth polarisation.
Were the world constructed differently our machines could be used to do all the work and we would be free to pursue our needs and desires. There is plenty of wealth, food, and shelter for that to work for all.
Sadly some people want to hog the wealth and sit on it like Jabba the Hut, for no better reason than to stop others being their equal. Such people have little imagination or creativity. There are 3 individuals in the USA who own 50% of the wealth and preside over mass poverty in the richest country in the world, supposedly.
Meanwhile the masses are distracted to hate people of different genders and colours, and to swallow the myth that America is great. Here in the UK we have much the same sort of moronic idiocy whereby the people conspire in their own oppression and suppression. Flag waving for Liz Sax-Coburg Gotha, aka Elizabeth (assumed name) Windsor, one of whose sons is so far removed from reality that he thinks he can evade guilt by trying to pretend he cannot sweat, and yet pays out $millions to avoid a court case which would have shown him to be a paedophile.
I've been working on a sci-fi book, ( maybe the next stage post sculptor) but I cold not put such a fantasy in it for appearing too ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant.

[JackDaydream]

I am still on top of the mountain because my life changed so much during lockdown because I stopped working and had to move and still need to move again. I want to find my authentic pathway because I feel 'stuck' at the top of the mountain. When you come away from the social roles it can seem so different from being caught up in them and daily routines. The crossroads can be interesting but challenging because it can be hard to see the directions forwards, especially as life is changing so much and there is so much uncertainty.

I was also slammed by the lockdown.
Not only has the prospect of further teaching sculpture been dashed, I have also lost my mojo for my own sculptural efforts.

I think there might be a problem with the way this thread is being conceived.

There is no "true self", It's not something you just find. Going up the mountain is away to shed the ossification of the needs and expectations of others, to find you individual substrate. But we are change and without growth we are dead.
Thus the "true self" is not a static object but an ever changing work in progress. You have to keep moulding it.
They say that a work of art is never finished by the artist, but just abandoned.
Our own personal work of art can only be abandoned at death, so we have to keep reshaping, adding and subtracting.

I didn't realise that you really do sculpture and teaching it. At one point I was training to be an art therapist and knew someone well who taught sculpture and exhibited work. I didn't manage to finish my therapy training because it was difficult, as I was working as a mental health nurse at the same time.

I think that life has changed so much after lockdown and it has led to a lot of changes which were coming along previously on a lot slower pace. I feel that I have changed quite a lot and find it harder to do the more mundane tasks. I love art and creative writing but the problem it is not easy to make a living that way. People I know who spend their lives in the arts frequently have to teach in order to survive financially.

The people who can do a really mundane job, like in a factory, are probably fortunate. It is not that I consider myself above such work, but simply that I think that I would do it so badly. It is a hard time because so many lives have changed and there is so much competition. Everything is about applying online and I barely even get any replies to applications. I am thinking of doing an evening course in art, possibly in portrait painting and, perhaps, do some volunteer work and voluntary work can help in the long run.

Capitalism is a system of mental destruction, and wealth polarisation.
Were the world constructed differently our machines could be used to do all the work and we would be free to pursue our needs and desires. There is plenty of wealth, food, and shelter for that to work for all.
Sadly some people want to hog the wealth and sit on it like Jabba the Hut, for no better reason than to stop others being their equal. Such people have little imagination or creativity. There are 3 individuals in the USA who own 50% of the wealth and preside over mass poverty in the richest country in the world, supposedly.
Meanwhile the masses are distracted to hate people of different genders and colours, and to swallow the myth that America is great. Here in the UK we have much the same sort of moronic idiocy whereby the people conspire in their own oppression and suppression. Flag waving for Liz Sax-Coburg Gotha, aka Elizabeth (assumed name) Windsor, one of whose sons is so far removed from reality that he thinks he can evade guilt by trying to pretend he cannot sweat, and yet pays out $millions to avoid a court case which would have shown him to be a paedophile.
I've been working on a sci-fi book, ( maybe the next stage post sculptor) but I cold not put such a fantasy in it for appearing too ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant.

It is an interesting rant! The construction of culture and its relationship with human thought is one which I think about, and was partly what I was thinking about when I wrote the thread on postmodernism. As an individual it is hard to make sense of oneself in such a strange world and it may go back to Camus's idea of the absurd but it is likely that humanity has now gone into a wilderness of the post absurd, with the original contemplation of the absurd being unable to capture the full extent of the nature of irrationality and how it may be presented the rational.

There are so many contradictions and it may be about the false self being seen as the true one. Even this split is too much of a binary split. It may be about the ongoing underlying thinking about seeing splits in one's understanding and in culture, as well as the whole intersubjective conflicts which underpin cultural wars.

[JackDaydream]

I came across an idea relevant to this discussion in a book which I am reading, 'The Laws of Nature', by Robert Greene (2018). He ses the idea of 'soul' as being about the individual search. He says, 'The soul is not the mind or the body but rather the overall spirit we embody, our way of experiencing the world.' He connects this with authenticity, especially one's goals, including ones which are self destructive. He speaks of some aspects of development being connected to a component, the internal saboteur. This is not identical to Laing or Winnicott's idea of the false self, but it may be an important form of an unhealthy development of self, or soul, which is probably useful to be aware of in life. Most people make mistakes and it is often only in retrospect that it is possible to see ways in which it is possible to sabotage one's own life pathways and goals.

[Good_Egg]

Seems to me that we humans are social creatures. Many of the virtues that an adult person has are ones that they have been socialized into.

Patience is a virtue, for example, and we learn patience by dealing with other people, and that process is ongoing.

The notion of the "true self" that we find at the top of a mountain seems to contain all the patience that we learnt years ago but not the patience that we're in the process of acquiring this week.

We are work in progress.

Nobody values fakeness for itself. But sometimes we become what we pretend to be...

[JackDaydream]

Seems to me that we humans are social creatures. Many of the virtues that an adult person has are ones that they have been socialized into.

Patience is a virtue, for example, and we learn patience by dealing with other people, and that process is ongoing.

The notion of the "true self" that we find at the top of a mountain seems to contain all the patience that we learnt years ago but not the patience that we're in the process of acquiring this week.

We are work in progress.

Nobody values fakeness for itself. But sometimes we become what we pretend to be...

To some extent, life, especially human dramas of inventing one's social self is like the pretences as described by Eric Berne in 'Games People Play'. Shakespeare described the world as a 'stage'. It is possible to get so caught up in the dramas of life, which may keep repeating many times. It may be what gets learned along the way which is most important, including some of the biggest mistakes made, even though it can be hard to face up to having made them because it threatens the ego.