The dog paradox : Does the dog live a better life?

[Bafis]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

[heracleitos]

Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

Absolutely not.

As a dog, I'd rather hunt down a rabbit, place a firm bite with my teeth on its throat, as to slowly suffocate it, and then tear its flesh to pieces in order to feed on its dead carcass. I would hate it if someone else killed the rabbit for me, somewhere in an industrial food processing plant. Where is the fun in that?

Furthermore, when the yearly season is there, I would bite off the ears and break the legs of any competing male dog trying to get in between me and the bitch in heat. The right to mount that bitch should not be for free. She is mine because I duly destroyed everyone who said that she wasn't.

That is the real nature of biological beings that are truly alive.

If you don't like the idea then there is almost surely a bug in your biological firmware. Seriously, if you refuse to do what it takes to stay alive, survive, thrive, and reproduce, then you clearly shouldn't.

Human civilization has artificially disabled the garbage collection process inside its own habitat. That is a big mistake. That is why people get depressed. Just wait until the laws of God and nature inevitably reaffirm themselves. That is just a question of time, because they always do. At that point, a lot of people will get into serious trouble.

You fight and die, or else you just die. The choice is yours.

[LuckyR]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

Occasionally I used to daydream similar thoughts. Specifically as someone who had a high pressure, high risk, high responsibility and high reward profession I would be working in the yard on weekends pulling weeds and I would muse: wouldn't it be great to be a gardener and pull weeds for a living? No risk, little responsibility, little pressure (admittedly for little reward)? But I concluded: no, I thrive in my position since if you risk nothing then your gains are hollow, that is if losing badly isn't an option then neither is winning big.

[stevie]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

However you look at it it's always looking through human eyes at something that is beyond human eyes because it's not looking through a dog's eyes.

[Good_Egg]

What are the arguments for the proposition ? I think you've presented two:
- that a dog does not have to labour for its food and shelter
- that a dog does not worry about the future.

I have to wonder - has your dog been neutered ?

[Bafis]

Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

Absolutely not.

As a dog, I'd rather hunt down a rabbit, place a firm bite with my teeth on its throat, as to slowly suffocate it, and then tear its flesh to pieces in order to feed on its dead carcass. I would hate it if someone else killed the rabbit for me, somewhere in an industrial food processing plant. Where is the fun in that?

Furthermore, when the yearly season is there, I would bite off the ears and break the legs of any competing male dog trying to get in between me and the bitch in heat. The right to mount that bitch should not be for free. She is mine because I duly destroyed everyone who said that she wasn't.

That is the real nature of biological beings that are truly alive.

If you don't like the idea then there is almost surely a bug in your biological firmware. Seriously, if you refuse to do what it takes to stay alive, survive, thrive, and reproduce, then you clearly shouldn't.

Human civilization has artificially disabled the garbage collection process inside its own habitat. That is a big mistake. That is why people get depressed. Just wait until the laws of God and nature inevitably reaffirm themselves. That is just a question of time, because they always do. At that point, a lot of people will get into serious trouble.

You fight and die, or else you just die. The choice is yours.

I can understand what you are saying. You mean, like, that the dog isn't living its "dream life" unless it's fully engaged and imersed with its nature a.k.a. hunting, running around, reproducing etc.
Thanks for sharing your comment!

[Bafis]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

Occasionally I used to daydream similar thoughts. Specifically as someone who had a high pressure, high risk, high responsibility and high reward profession I would be working in the yard on weekends pulling weeds and I would muse: wouldn't it be great to be a gardener and pull weeds for a living? No risk, little responsibility, little pressure (admittedly for little reward)? But I concluded: no, I thrive in my position since if you risk nothing then your gains are hollow, that is if losing badly isn't an option then neither is winning big.

I agree with you. If I may ask, what was your profession ?
Also, thanks for answering!

[Bafis]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

However you look at it it's always looking through human eyes at something that is beyond human eyes because it's not looking through a dog's eyes.

I have to say that I can't disagree with your statement. We can only speculate how a dog would look at the world.

[Bafis]

What are the arguments for the proposition ? I think you've presented two:
- that a dog does not have to labour for its food and shelter
- that a dog does not worry about the future.

I have to wonder - has your dog been neutered ?

Yeah, these are my arguments pretty much. Perhaps, I have not laid them down clearly in the main post, I'm not really good with words to be honest.

Actually no, it hasn't been neutered.

[Halc]

Commenting on OP without reading any of the replies first. I imagine some of it has already been said.

They might say that the dog isn't completely "free"

Such a comment is probably made by an American, who is constantly bombarded by the virtues of 'freedom', without actually spelling those out.

But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do.

Except for the freedom one, it might comprehend those as much as we do. Of course it lacks the language to express/obfuscate those understandings. Really, language is probably what sets us apart.

One could argue that the dog isn't concious,

Yea, well given language, the dog could equally argue that you aren't.

Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

To some I suppose, dreaming of a layabout life. A domestic dog often sees its role as a protector. I personally seek accomplishment, and embrace negative things like pain and worry, all of which means you're probably trying to accomplish something.

What are your thoughts?

You think the dog would trade places, given a choice? This of course all presumes any meaningfulness to said trading of places (meaningfulness which I personally deny), but most people know what you mean when asked such a thing.
For one, imagine choosing to loose one of your senses almost completely. That would be tough to voluntarily give up. Imagine a choice of a life of (what you see as) leisure, but you have to go blind to do it.

[LuckyR]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

Occasionally I used to daydream similar thoughts. Specifically as someone who had a high pressure, high risk, high responsibility and high reward profession I would be working in the yard on weekends pulling weeds and I would muse: wouldn't it be great to be a gardener and pull weeds for a living? No risk, little responsibility, little pressure (admittedly for little reward)? But I concluded: no, I thrive in my position since if you risk nothing then your gains are hollow, that is if losing badly isn't an option then neither is winning big.

I agree with you. If I may ask, what was your profession ?
Also, thanks for answering!

I practiced as an OB/GYN.

[Pattern-chaser]

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

It depends what "better" means. This sounds like nit-picking, but I don't think it is. How can you/we compare a dog's life with a human's, or a flea's life with a whale's? What criteria for comparison might we use? We can't know what it is like to be a dog, any more than we can know what it is like to be a bat.

I think this renders your question unanswerable. Sorry.

[Pattern-chaser]

What are the arguments for the proposition ? I think you've presented two:
- that a dog does not have to labour for its food and shelter
- that a dog does not worry about the future.

I have to wonder - has your dog been neutered ?

I.e. did you have its balls chopped off? Did that make its life 'better'? I'm sorry, I'm making fun of the OP, and that's a bit unfair. But yours are fair questions: in the real world, the human world that we impose upon dogs, how should we account for the things we impose upon them, such as captivity, emasculation, and so on? With some (moral) difficulty, I suggest.

[Bafis]

Such a comment is probably made by an American, who is constantly bombarded by the virtues of 'freedom', without actually spelling those out.

Actually no, I'm not American (I'm Greek) and thus I don't really understand the culture of "freedom" over there. I have to admit, I worded it wrongly. When I used the word "free" I meant that the dog doesn't have the ability and the autonomy to do things such as travelling alone.

Except for the freedom one, it might comprehend those as much as we do. Of course it lacks the language to express/obfuscate those understandings. Really, language is probably what sets us apart.

I find it hard to believe that dogs may have the same understadning on these concepts as we, humans do, because of their brain-size, though we really can't be certain. To be certain we would need to be able to communicate with the dogs, in this way they would tell us how they percieve the world and life, (or at least have a way through which we could comprehend in a great proximity what/how etc. the dogs see/feel/think etc.) - Is there a word to describe that? Perhaps the psyche of the dog(s)? Yeah, I think it fits better.- But until then, we can only speculate through theories and experiments.

Personally,I don't think that language is the sole factor that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Our tendency to form large societies, our "cleverness" and of course our abilty to communicate in great details, I believe are the core things that seperate us from the rest of the animals. There are countless theories - and probably better than mine- that suggest what seperates us form the rest.

Yea, well given language, the dog could equally argue that you aren't.

Now that you say, yeah we are most likely not free. But I think we are more free than the dogs. I could be wrong, but I won't go in more depth, since this is a whole topic of its own, though I am happy to discuss about it.

You think the dog would trade places, given a choice?

To be completely honest, I don't know, is probably the safest answer. It really dependes on a lot of factors. For example, if I just wanted a really lazy life and to do completely nothing, then I would probably switch. Though as you mention, what I find leisure as human might be painful as a dog. If I wanted a life full of activities and to be constantly doing something, I would probably choose to not switch.

I'm really intrested in, what you would do. You answer this only if you want of course.

[Bafis]

The title might be a little bit misleading, but it sounded really cool and mysterious, so I decided to keep this title.

Anyway, to the main text.

It was a warm afternoon and I was sitting outside, chilling with my dog and looking at the clouds. Then, after looking at my dog, I wondered, does the dog live a better life than us? I'd answer with a very doubtful yes.

Others might say no. They might say that the dog isn't completely "free", that it (I mean the dog) can't travel somewhere alone, it can't try new things like scuba diving. But I would say the dog can't comprehend such concepts as "freedom", "death" , "time", "meaning" as we, humans, do. One could argue that the dog isn't concious, which could be good and bad depending on how one looks at it.

What the dog sees is, that it is being fed, without doing any hunting or "hard" work (at least my dog), plays a lot, sleeps a lot and gets bored and doesn't have to worry for anything (though to be honest I don't think that the dog can even comprehend our worrying). Basically, lives without trying at all. Doesn't it sound like a dream life?

I guess it really depends on how one looks at it. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading through.

Occasionally I used to daydream similar thoughts. Specifically as someone who had a high pressure, high risk, high responsibility and high reward profession I would be working in the yard on weekends pulling weeds and I would muse: wouldn't it be great to be a gardener and pull weeds for a living? No risk, little responsibility, little pressure (admittedly for little reward)? But I concluded: no, I thrive in my position since if you risk nothing then your gains are hollow, that is if losing badly isn't an option then neither is winning big.

I agree with you. If I may ask, what was your profession ?
Also, thanks for answering!

I practiced as an OB/GYN.

Very interesting! Thanks for answering!