What You Know vs. What You Do

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GrayArea
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What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by GrayArea »

Consider this quote from Karl Marx. (Who he is matters very little in this context.)

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."

Here, Marx seems to be making a point about how simply understanding the world is not everything to human existence.

From a third-person perspective, a wise philosopher who knows and understands everything about the world but does not use his knowledge to do anything with it, can be considered as the same worth to the world, as an ordinary man.

From the perspective of the world they are of equal worth, because they both do not strive to change or affect the world in any significant way. This is because our knowledges are only present from "our perspectives".

What are your thoughts on this? Do you agree with the quote? Do you think we should look at ourselves from the "perspective of the world" as much as we do from our own perspectives? Perhaps you have your own preferences between the two?

Furthermore, how do you, or how would you, use your own interpretations and philosophies regarding the world to act as a force of significant change? Is spreading ideas through words all we can do in order to accomplish this?
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
Gee
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by Gee »

GrayArea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am Consider this quote from Karl Marx. (Who he is matters very little in this context.)

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."

Here, Marx seems to be making a point about how simply understanding the world is not everything to human existence.

From a third-person perspective, a wise philosopher who knows and understands everything about the world but does not use his knowledge to do anything with it, can be considered as the same worth to the world, as an ordinary man.

From the perspective of the world they are of equal worth, because they both do not strive to change or affect the world in any significant way. This is because our knowledges are only present from "our perspectives".

What are your thoughts on this? Do you agree with the quote? Do you think we should look at ourselves from the "perspective of the world" as much as we do from our own perspectives? Perhaps you have your own preferences between the two?

Furthermore, how do you, or how would you, use your own interpretations and philosophies regarding the world to act as a force of significant change? Is spreading ideas through words all we can do in order to accomplish this?
My thoughts are that Marx is not talking about perspectives, he is talking about power. Power is often more illusion than anything else, so no, I don't agree with him.

My thought is that we are seldom smart enough to cause "significant change", without making a really big mess. The mess is often not noticed for many years, even generations, but it is often there.

Gee
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Count Lucanor
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by Count Lucanor »

GrayArea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am Consider this quote from Karl Marx. (Who he is matters very little in this context.)

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."

Here, Marx seems to be making a point about how simply understanding the world is not everything to human existence.

From a third-person perspective, a wise philosopher who knows and understands everything about the world but does not use his knowledge to do anything with it, can be considered as the same worth to the world, as an ordinary man.

From the perspective of the world they are of equal worth, because they both do not strive to change or affect the world in any significant way. This is because our knowledges are only present from "our perspectives".

What are your thoughts on this? Do you agree with the quote? Do you think we should look at ourselves from the "perspective of the world" as much as we do from our own perspectives? Perhaps you have your own preferences between the two?

Furthermore, how do you, or how would you, use your own interpretations and philosophies regarding the world to act as a force of significant change? Is spreading ideas through words all we can do in order to accomplish this?
Marx is talking about the philosophy of praxis, inherited from Hegel, and which means something different than what you suggest here. It's about the dialectic, about movement, about becoming something else, about development and realizing potentials. Marx acknowledges that human subjectivity, in the form of culture that the individual subject assimilates, is shaped historically by practical activity, by human labor applied to the objects that make everyday life and the forms of social organization that practical life demands from the material conditions of existence. In turn, dialectically, practical life and its needs are transformed by the socially-constructed modes of subjectivity, by the world views.

There used to be a conception of philosophy as mere contemplation, as theoretical activity concerned with superior intellectual affairs in the domain of pure ideas, cut off from the practical concerns of everyday life and the historical material conditions of social existence. It was the predominant view of cultural elites against which Marx reacts.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
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GrayArea
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by GrayArea »

Gee wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:31 pm
GrayArea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am Consider this quote from Karl Marx. (Who he is matters very little in this context.)

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."

Here, Marx seems to be making a point about how simply understanding the world is not everything to human existence.

From a third-person perspective, a wise philosopher who knows and understands everything about the world but does not use his knowledge to do anything with it, can be considered as the same worth to the world, as an ordinary man.

From the perspective of the world they are of equal worth, because they both do not strive to change or affect the world in any significant way. This is because our knowledges are only present from "our perspectives".

What are your thoughts on this? Do you agree with the quote? Do you think we should look at ourselves from the "perspective of the world" as much as we do from our own perspectives? Perhaps you have your own preferences between the two?

Furthermore, how do you, or how would you, use your own interpretations and philosophies regarding the world to act as a force of significant change? Is spreading ideas through words all we can do in order to accomplish this?
My thoughts are that Marx is not talking about perspectives, he is talking about power. Power is often more illusion than anything else, so no, I don't agree with him.

My thought is that we are seldom smart enough to cause "significant change", without making a really big mess. The mess is often not noticed for many years, even generations, but it is often there.

Gee
How about you as an individual? Do you think that it's a pivotal part of human existence to leave their mark on the world through creating change, or do you think it's unnecessary or pointless?
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
heracleitos
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by heracleitos »

GrayArea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Yes, is is indeed not enough to call out your adversaries. It is also not enough to merely oppose them, such as marching, protesting, or even fighting them. You must also show that you can make heaps of money by doing that. Otherwise, if on the other hand it is not possible to extract lot of cash from sinking the adversary into the ground, then there is almost surely something wrong with your philosophy. Getting even with your adversary is an activity that must always fund itself, and then some.

Marxism may denounce the bourgeoisie as their class enemies, but have they ever made money from doing that? No? In that case, their philosophy is obviously dead end. Attacking and destroying the bourgeoisie must also be an activity that satisfies primary needs. Therefore, for reasons of biological legitimacy, with every dead bourgeois, the balance on your bank account should further increase. However, it clearly doesn't. Hence, the Marxist philosophy does not make sense.

Compare this to, for example, Alexander the Great's philosophy that the Persians deserved a vicious lesson in humility. In fact, it wasn't difficult to get this plan going. Alexander merely promised his Macedonian armies lots of gold and lots of pretty virgins, if they managed to crush the imperial armies of Darius. Was Alexander going to make money from his philosophy? Yes, of course! He definitely managed to rake in heaps of cash, simply by confiscating it from the defeated Persians. That is why I would certainly have joined in and followed the leadership and philosophy of Alexander. The whole idea was clearly going to work like a charm.

In other words, if you want me to change the world, you will have to pay me to do it. Otherwise, I won't lift a finger.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by Pattern-chaser »

GrayArea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am A wise philosopher who knows and understands everything about the world but does not use his knowledge to do anything with it, can be considered as the same worth to the world, as an ordinary man.
If knowledge or wisdom is not transmitted, not communicated, it cannot become part of our ever-evolving human culture. And so it is worthless, as you observe.


GrayArea wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:56 am Do you think we should look at ourselves from the "perspective of the world" as much as we do from our own perspectives? Perhaps you have your own preferences between the two?
I have always found that perspectives — pretty much all perspectives — are worthwhile and useful. If we look at things from as many 'angles' as possible, I think we gain a more balanced view.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by Pattern-chaser »

heracleitos wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:11 pm Yes, is is indeed not enough to call out your adversaries. It is also not enough to merely oppose them, such as marching, protesting, or even fighting them. You must also show that you can make heaps of money by doing that. Otherwise, if on the other hand it is not possible to extract lot of cash from sinking the adversary into the ground, then there is almost surely something wrong with your philosophy.
Is this sarcasm or not? I'm sorry, but I can't tell. 🤔
Pattern-chaser

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Ecurb
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by Ecurb »

O body swayed to music, O brightening glance,
How can we know the dancer from the dance?
W.B. Yeats, "Among School Children"
heracleitos
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Re: What You Know vs. What You Do

Post by heracleitos »

Pattern-chaser wrote: September 23rd, 2022, 10:29 am
heracleitos wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 11:11 pm Yes, is is indeed not enough to call out your adversaries. It is also not enough to merely oppose them, such as marching, protesting, or even fighting them. You must also show that you can make heaps of money by doing that. Otherwise, if on the other hand it is not possible to extract lot of cash from sinking the adversary into the ground, then there is almost surely something wrong with your philosophy.
Is this sarcasm or not? I'm sorry, but I can't tell. 🤔
Well, it seems to be working for Vladimir Putin.

Putin's philosophy makes sense since Russia is now making truckloads of money from the destruction of the economy of the EU. As I said, in order to validate Putin's philosophy, it is not enough for him to successfully achieve his goal as to obliterate the economy of the EU. If his philosophy is truly correct, he must also make truckloads of money in the process of doing so. He clearly is.
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