Information and Conscious Experience

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

1001100
There is no “distance” in the above construct.
The 0 does not exist
The 1 is a SINGULARITY
——
You really need to consider the implications of those two
FACTS —-

There is no distance
BTW —- there is no time distance either—-
the past does not exist —- anymore
The future future does Not exist yet —— only NOW exists
Another “singularity” …… get a real education instead of the fairy tales of creation and evolution.
Does not exist yet
godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

The existence of eyeballs is easily fAlsifiable by simply examining them closely
Close enough to we they are actually subatomic electromagnetic energy - NOT PHYSICAL on any way.
I dare you to look at anything ALLEDGED to be “physical”
godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

Are you being dense intentionally for some reason. Do you have absolutely no idea what the binary system is?
MORSE CODE - dot dash binary
TELEGRAPH TELEPHONE- on off binary
CONSCIOUSNESS- firing synapses- on off
Everything you think say hear are ALL based on VIBRATING ENERGY- obviously you are either unable or unwilling to engage in an intelligent discussion.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by Pattern-chaser »

godblog wrote: January 6th, 2023, 6:38 pm 1001100
There is no “distance” in the above construct.
The 0 does not exist
The 1 is a SINGULARITY
You should get together with Joshua10, who shares your unusual fascination for writing things in binary notation, presumably believing it encapsulates some kind of truth that others have missed...

The trouble is that no-one else can see this truth — these truths? — even when you 'explain' it to them.
Pattern-chaser

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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by Pattern-chaser »

godblog wrote: January 9th, 2023, 2:57 pm CONSCIOUSNESS- firing synapses- on off
Synapses that fire according to multi-input, variable-thresholds, approaching an 'analogue' continuous mode of operation, not binary at all? Are those the synapses you mean?
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godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

Yes synapses that fire ONE AT A TIME - time where the past firing DOES NOT EXIST anymore - time where the future DOES NOT EXIST yet - only NOW ever exists- one now at a time which we use to create our next now based on the results of our past nows.

We are a SINGULARITY CONSCIOUSNESS (1) in a universe of nothingness (0) vibrating 1010011 And creating everything you imagine as being “material”

Consider the implications of the FACT that nothing physical
Actually exists- consciousness NOT PHYSICAL
angstroms decibels NOT PHYSICAL- atoms NOT PHYSICAL.
Gertie
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by Gertie »

Greta
I find there are angles in considering consciousness/sentience:

For sure.  I'm wanting to pin down what role the information processing angle might be here, as I think it's conceptual/descriptive  rather than talking about something in itself, and therefore we shouldn't get carried away and treat it as causal or fundamental, re consciousness or anything else. But could we be in a universe where information is more than a description? Well that would need an argument entailing what such a universe would be like, and why we should believe it.

The information processing angle is promising. In terms of evolution, what advantage might there be to experiencing reality rather than be a super efficient "philosophical zombie"? If info processing is key, then there might not be a choice. That is, to be a complex mammal that does all the things that intelligent mammals need to do, means that "the lights must be on".
I'd say when we talk about information in functional terms , like evolution, we are still talking conceptually, as function itself is a conceptualised description.  My ontological position is that the universe comprises   stuff and processes, and information and function are ways of describing what's actually going on. Evolution is a physical process which results in generational change to species.  Neural correlation suggests there's nothing a conscious human can do that a p-zombie can't.  To say conscious information processing adds to fitness suggests two things I think - conscious experience can have causative effects on brain processes, and more to my point here - information processing IS conscious experiencing.  Where-as I'm saying information processing is simply a way to describe conscious experience, or brain processes - they are what they are whether we describe them that way or not.

I think there's an argument that critters like us who are sophisticated enough to think abstractly and use symbolic language to communicate, are manipulating information in a way which requires consciousness.  But the actuality of what that entails still boils down to the things in themselves which exist, which are brain processes and correlated experience. Take those away, and there's no residual information which exists as a thing in itself.
In terms of AI consciousness, if this is true, then sentience will automatically emerge with relational complexity. It's one thing to be a great chatbot, another to be able to chat, move around, play, socialise, create and decide which of these to do at appropriate junctures. Might there be small aspects of qualia in the best AI today? Maybe, but we humans don't much care about modest amounts of qualia, as any factory farmed animal would tell you if it could.

True we mostly don't.  Unless they're cute n cuddly.

Wadda we want - AI rights! When do we want them - as soon as we can work out if they're conscious!
Another angle, like consciousness, the electromagnetic force can be either be attractive or repulsive. It would seem that chemistry is an emergent extension of EM, and life is an emergent extension of chemistry, and consciousness is an emergent extension of life. Each of these characteristics of reality carries that same flexible property of the EM force - they are all both attractive and repulsive (under usual conditions), unlike gravity* and the strong and weak nuclear forces.
Could be.  This would be a physicalist emergence ontological explanation for conscious experience.  Describing stuff and processes which are things in themselves. 'Information processing' would then be an abstract functionalist description of these things which actually exist.
Another angle, there appears to be no consciousness without emotions. Emotions are key to motivation, the drive to do. What are emotions, though? Simple emotions are basically the language that your brain and the rest of your body use to communicate with each other. They are messages, calls to action. Complex emotions, such as embarrassment or guilt are the next layer, with the brain communicating with itself, basically self programming. (There also the side effect of emotions in how they impact others, eg. anger intimidating or crying inducing sympathy).
I think that in evolved critters it makes sense functionally  that a basic reward system evolved early- a desire to move towards light, flee when the ground vibrates, hurt when injured, eat when hungry, enjoy reproduction, and in mammals with helpless offspring, care for them. Our lizard brain parts preceded our more thinky, cognitive, controlling  parts. You can abstractly describe that as the brain 'communicating' with itself, but the stuff and processes angle would say ontologically it boils down to - stuff and processes, you don't need that abstract 'communication' description to account for neuronal interactions

Aaand one more angle: there may be organisation in the cosmos that is too large for us to see, and we are impacted by this larger consciousness just as our cells are impacted by our thoughts.
This I think could be the basis for an argument for information processing being akin to fundamental and causative for our universe, because it posits mind as fundamental. In such a universe, purpose, function and the awareness of information could be part of the fabric of the universe in some way.  The idea of a minded creator imbuing its creation with such qualities might be an example, idealism another. 


I think you need an ontology which includes some sort of fundamental functional/purposive/minded  property to make information a thing in itself with causal powers - rather than just a description of how stuff and processes have played out to result in humans who have come up with this way of describing that stuff and processes.
Gertie
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by Gertie »

Pattern-chaser wrote: January 5th, 2023, 9:53 am
Gertie wrote: January 4th, 2023, 5:32 pm The photons, eyeballs and experience of seeing are real and exist independently of description.
Do you present this as an axiom, an assumption that is accepted without question or justification? The mind-independent existence of photons and eyeballs is not verifiable (or falsifiable either), I don't think; it is not demonstrable. The "experience of seeing" I'm unsure about.
I'm assuming other minded subjects, and a world 'out there' of something we minded subjects experience, exists. But I'm addressing the physicalist position directly here. And inviting counter-arguments from those who disagree with me about information, from whatever position they take.
godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

Seeing is just angstroms VIBRATING ENERGY
Hearing is just decibels VIBRATING ENERGY
Thoughts are just VIBRATING ENERGY

Atoms are reducible to subatomic electromagnetic energy
NOTHING IS PHYSICAL-
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by Pattern-chaser »

godblog wrote: January 9th, 2023, 2:57 pm CONSCIOUSNESS- firing synapses- on off
Pattern-chaser wrote: January 10th, 2023, 11:47 am Synapses that fire according to multi-input, variable-thresholds, approaching an 'analogue' continuous mode of operation, not binary at all? Are those the synapses you mean?
godblog wrote: January 10th, 2023, 2:06 pm Yes synapses that fire ONE AT A TIME - time where the past firing DOES NOT EXIST anymore - time where the future DOES NOT EXIST yet - only NOW ever exists- one now at a time which we use to create our next now based on the results of our past nows.
Er, the adaptive thresholds of those synapses — part of their non-binary behaviour — are persistent. Not eternal, but persistent.
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godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

Can they or be both persistent and eternal? After all energy cannot be created or destroyed- it just changes form FOREVER.
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by Pattern-chaser »

godblog wrote: January 12th, 2023, 10:29 am Can they or be both persistent and eternal? After all energy cannot be created or destroyed- it just changes form FOREVER.
Pattern-chaser wrote: January 12th, 2023, 9:36 am Er, the adaptive thresholds of those synapses — part of their non-binary behaviour — are persistent. Not eternal, but persistent.
I said "not eternal". Also, matter or energ7 that has changed its form can do so again, at any time. Hence not "FOREVER".
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godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, making it ETERNAL. That is what the word eternal means.
Energy changes form. Constantly expanding into the universe.
FOREVER refers to the energy not to the form.
Hence, extrapolating backward to the beginning of its expansion requires it to have been extremely dense.
PROBLEM: a very cursory examination proves there is no evidence of anything physical existing- atoms reduce to subatomic particles which are actually a perception of subatomic electromagnetic energy NOT PHYSICAL- just a perception of energy.
CONSCIOUSNESS- I think therefore I AM. Just thoughts.
Do you have any questions and or comment on my implication that nothing exists physically?
godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

Oh yeah. That goes also to the fact that everything we see is just vibrating energy - angstroms-
Everything we hear is vibrating energy- decibels-
Everything we think - consciousness-
Nothing is physical- everything is a quantum consciousness CREATING a perception of a physical reality
PURPSE: to make our boring lonely existence as a singularity consciousness (1) in a universe of nothingness (0) a more enjoyable experience by vibrating 10011001. Perhaps you recognize the BINARY SYSTEM with which we create and communicate our existence
godblog
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Re: Information and Conscious Experience

Post by godblog »

All communication is BINARY -

Everything you see is ANGSTROMS vibrating energy
Everything you hear is DECIBELS vibrating energy
Everything you think is firing synapses vibrating energy

Example - all computer communicates using the Binary system
10011000
Every word in any language is an expression of vibrating energy which is a PURELY BINARY PROCESS.

Nothing can exist without the binary processing necessary to give meaning to every thought.
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