What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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The Beast
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Re: What is Catl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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Very well Jack. In approaching your post in a systematic way, I am perceiving several opposites such as inner/outer; objective/subjective; physical/metaphysical. The idea of a circle might give insight into Plotinus’ mind.
If you put a human in the desert looking for salvation, he/she might walk a long way just to be back at the start point… or as Plotinus said, “the soul’s natural movement is not in a straight line” … “it circles around something interior around a centre”. The circle is the concept of enantiodromia or the union of the opposites by “emerging” or as transcendent possibilities of the circle. Transcendental idealism? I believe that Schopenhauer was familiar with psychological laws (hedgehogs’ dilemma) and his question of “why is there something instead of nothing” is being around since at least Paracelsus. By using something/nothing as enantiodromia then IMO paradox or "forever in a circle" or ..." Free Will"
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Re: What is Catl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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The Beast wrote: March 14th, 2023, 5:57 pm Very well Jack. In approaching your post in a systematic way, I am perceiving several opposites such as inner/outer; objective/subjective; physical/metaphysical. The idea of a circle might give insight into Plotinus’ mind.
If you put a human in the desert looking for salvation, he/she might walk a long way just to be back at the start point… or as Plotinus said, “the soul’s natural movement is not in a straight line” … “it circles around something interior around a centre”. The circle is the concept of enantiodromia or the union of the opposites by “emerging” or as transcendent possibilities of the circle. Transcendental idealism? I believe that Schopenhauer was familiar with psychological laws (hedgehogs’ dilemma) and his question of “why is there something instead of nothing” is being around since at least Paracelsus. By using something/nothing as enantiodromia then IMO paradox or "forever in a circle" or ..." Free Will"
As I understand it from my reading of Jung the idea of enantiodromia goes back to the idea of Heraclitus. It does suggest a interplay of qualities, merging the linear movement and extreme poles of continuum with cyclical patterns. This is the interplay of opposites, like the yin and the yang but within a larger unity.

The circle is an interesting concept because even if it starts somewhere the beginning is not apparent. It is beyond the borders and spectrum of the known, as conveyed in the concepts of infinity and eternity. With transcendental idealism this may be about the unconscious as unlimited potential prior to physicality. Where Schopenhauer comes in is that he brings the transcendent, spoken of by Kant, down to human consciousness, making it as imminent, which makes inner experience the valid seat of experience of the numinous.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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well said Jack. In addition:
The concepts of Techne and Epistemology had been explored by multiple philosophers. Aristotle is well known and better so with the advent of the transcendental phenomenology thesis and also (of your own interest), the modern discourse on the technicity of art.
To be precise, Jung hypothesized in his psychology of consciousness several divisions of the unconscious one of which is the impersonal and collective contents; that there is a collision of conscious and unconscious and that consciousness is founded on unconsciousness.
Unlike Plato’s tetralogies which IMO are based in Techne of the soul and the relation with the Forms maybe numina “the will of augury” (relation of unconscious manifestations) and the basis (starting point) for animal systematics of evolution and diversity, Jung’s tetralogy (archetypes) webs a faint rosarium of empirical evidence. However, his archetypes rose from (IMO) from his knowledge of Alchemy. He actually cites Aristotle’s “perfecto magisterio” and others in an alchemical making of the living stone (the self… life) with magnesium (magnets and alchemical magnesia). He also refers to treatises such as ‘God and the Shekhinah’ to formulate an alchemical self in relation to and with the collective contents.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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The Beast wrote: March 15th, 2023, 3:10 pm well said Jack. In addition:
The concepts of Techne and Epistemology had been explored by multiple philosophers. Aristotle is well known and better so with the advent of the transcendental phenomenology thesis and also (of your own interest), the modern discourse on the technicity of art.
To be precise, Jung hypothesized in his psychology of consciousness several divisions of the unconscious one of which is the impersonal and collective contents; that there is a collision of conscious and unconscious and that consciousness is founded on unconsciousness.
Unlike Plato’s tetralogies which IMO are based in Techne of the soul and the relation with the Forms maybe numina “the will of augury” (relation of unconscious manifestations) and the basis (starting point) for animal systematics of evolution and diversity, Jung’s tetralogy (archetypes) webs a faint rosarium of empirical evidence. However, his archetypes rose from (IMO) from his knowledge of Alchemy. He actually cites Aristotle’s “perfecto magisterio” and others in an alchemical making of the living stone (the self… life) with magnesium (magnets and alchemical magnesia). He also refers to treatises such as ‘God and the Shekhinah’ to formulate an alchemical self in relation to and with the collective contents.
I have not read much of Aristotle's writing but I am aware that he places more emphasis on the empirical rather than Plato. It does seem that Jung's understanding draws upon alchemy and other esoteric ideas. I am inclined to think that it is the focus on the esoteric which makes him disregarded in philosophy as a whole. Of course, his use of the Gnostic interpretations of Christianity makes him able to challenge the literalism of traditional Christian thinking.

Nevertheless, his whole emphasis on the reality of the nature of inner experience and symbolic makes him a challenge to the concrete thinking of materialism, especially Dennett's idea of 'consciousness as an illusion'. For Jung, consciousness and the unconscious as a source is central to understanding of reality.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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A thought out of left field regarding archetypes. While the actual designations are debatable, there are many ways in which people can be divided into types. There is always an uncanny sense when one meets a person whose appearance and demeanour is highly reminiscent of someone you know. They are of a similar "type", although Jung's and others' attempts to classify them - from astrology to modern personality inventories - show how elusive solid definitions of those types are. To some extent, it's a matter of "you know it when you see it".

It's fun to think that, somewhere amongst the billions, there are people who share many attributes to us and tend to occupy similar social niches. Further, in the future others will be born. In that sense, archetypes are essentially immortal. In any given population, sentient or otherwise, there will be a smaller number of dominant entities and their satellites, a larger population of smaller victims of the dominants, either via absorption, destruction or exile, catalysts, destroyers, the "in-crowd" and fringe dwellers, the complex and the simple, the more typical and less typical, the harder and softer, and so forth.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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Sy Borg wrote: March 18th, 2023, 5:53 pm A thought out of left field regarding archetypes. While the actual designations are debatable, there are many ways in which people can be divided into types. There is always an uncanny sense when one meets a person whose appearance and demeanour is highly reminiscent of someone you know. They are of a similar "type", although Jung's and others' attempts to classify them - from astrology to modern personality inventories - show how elusive solid definitions of those types are. To some extent, it's a matter of "you know it when you see it".

It's fun to think that, somewhere amongst the billions, there are people who share many attributes to us and tend to occupy similar social niches. Further, in the future others will be born. In that sense, archetypes are essentially immortal. In any given population, sentient or otherwise, there will be a smaller number of dominant entities and their satellites, a larger population of smaller victims of the dominants, either via absorption, destruction or exile, catalysts, destroyers, the "in-crowd" and fringe dwellers, the complex and the simple, the more typical and less typical, the harder and softer, and so forth.
The issue of types and archetypes relates to the way in which people have universal and unique features. It brings in the mythical and story aspects of life, as spoken about in more detail by Joseph Campbell than by Jung. People have varying attributes and quests in life. Some may relate to ones like father or mother, although there are so many like the more obscure. The ones with which I feel most resonance with are shaman or the wounded healer, or even the fool. The archetypal figure of the wounded healer was the archetype which I felt to be of most importance when I was training in psychiatric nursing.

As for how we make connections with others in the mythical drama is variable because it involves making the important connections and what is projected. The outer and the inner may be at odds. For example, I may see someone who looks similar to someone I know but if I get to know them it is unlikely that they will be similar in a deeper way. Sometimes, it can be a problem if people project specific characteristics or attributes onto certain others. This may lead to a lot of difficulties in personal relationships and friendships.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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JackDaydream wrote: March 19th, 2023, 6:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 18th, 2023, 5:53 pm A thought out of left field regarding archetypes. While the actual designations are debatable, there are many ways in which people can be divided into types. There is always an uncanny sense when one meets a person whose appearance and demeanour is highly reminiscent of someone you know. They are of a similar "type", although Jung's and others' attempts to classify them - from astrology to modern personality inventories - show how elusive solid definitions of those types are. To some extent, it's a matter of "you know it when you see it".

It's fun to think that, somewhere amongst the billions, there are people who share many attributes to us and tend to occupy similar social niches. Further, in the future others will be born. In that sense, archetypes are essentially immortal. In any given population, sentient or otherwise, there will be a smaller number of dominant entities and their satellites, a larger population of smaller victims of the dominants, either via absorption, destruction or exile, catalysts, destroyers, the "in-crowd" and fringe dwellers, the complex and the simple, the more typical and less typical, the harder and softer, and so forth.
The issue of types and archetypes relates to the way in which people have universal and unique features. It brings in the mythical and story aspects of life, as spoken about in more detail by Joseph Campbell than by Jung. People have varying attributes and quests in life. Some may relate to ones like father or mother, although there are so many like the more obscure. The ones with which I feel most resonance with are shaman or the wounded healer, or even the fool. The archetypal figure of the wounded healer was the archetype which I felt to be of most importance when I was training in psychiatric nursing.

As for how we make connections with others in the mythical drama is variable because it involves making the important connections and what is projected. The outer and the inner may be at odds. For example, I may see someone who looks similar to someone I know but if I get to know them it is unlikely that they will be similar in a deeper way. Sometimes, it can be a problem if people project specific characteristics or attributes onto certain others. This may lead to a lot of difficulties in personal relationships and friendships.
Superficial similarities are not relevant. Fact is that there will be some people (aside from family) who are more like you in disposition and characteristics than any others. A thought experiment, imagine that everyone completed a personality inventory of ten thousand questions (a thought experiment because it could never be done). There would be various people around the globe who would have answered almost every question the same as yours. From memory, mystics who believe in reincarnation refer to "soul families".
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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Sy Borg wrote: March 19th, 2023, 3:44 pm
JackDaydream wrote: March 19th, 2023, 6:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 18th, 2023, 5:53 pm A thought out of left field regarding archetypes. While the actual designations are debatable, there are many ways in which people can be divided into types. There is always an uncanny sense when one meets a person whose appearance and demeanour is highly reminiscent of someone you know. They are of a similar "type", although Jung's and others' attempts to classify them - from astrology to modern personality inventories - show how elusive solid definitions of those types are. To some extent, it's a matter of "you know it when you see it".

It's fun to think that, somewhere amongst the billions, there are people who share many attributes to us and tend to occupy similar social niches. Further, in the future others will be born. In that sense, archetypes are essentially immortal. In any given population, sentient or otherwise, there will be a smaller number of dominant entities and their satellites, a larger population of smaller victims of the dominants, either via absorption, destruction or exile, catalysts, destroyers, the "in-crowd" and fringe dwellers, the complex and the simple, the more typical and less typical, the harder and softer, and so forth.
The issue of types and archetypes relates to the way in which people have universal and unique features. It brings in the mythical and story aspects of life, as spoken about in more detail by Joseph Campbell than by Jung. People have varying attributes and quests in life. Some may relate to ones like father or mother, although there are so many like the more obscure. The ones with which I feel most resonance with are shaman or the wounded healer, or even the fool. The archetypal figure of the wounded healer was the archetype which I felt to be of most importance when I was training in psychiatric nursing.

As for how we make connections with others in the mythical drama is variable because it involves making the important connections and what is projected. The outer and the inner may be at odds. For example, I may see someone who looks similar to someone I know but if I get to know them it is unlikely that they will be similar in a deeper way. Sometimes, it can be a problem if people project specific characteristics or attributes onto certain others. This may lead to a lot of difficulties in personal relationships and friendships.
Superficial similarities are not relevant. Fact is that there will be some people (aside from family) who are more like you in disposition and characteristics than any others. A thought experiment, imagine that everyone completed a personality inventory of ten thousand questions (a thought experiment because it could never be done). There would be various people around the globe who would have answered almost every question the same as yours. From memory, mystics who believe in reincarnation refer to "soul families".

Generally, I would go more by how people relate to one another with connections more than by answers to questions. That is based on experience of relating to people and what is sometimes considered to be 'soul groups or families'. There seem to be definite connections between people which can last throughout life, although these may alter. On a personal level, I often feel that some people I come across are ones who I am 'meant to meet' whereas others are far more superficial acquaintances. For example, since moving to North London about 6 weeks ago I have tried to get to know some people locally and, so far, I have not met anyone with whom I have meaningful connections. Of course, sometimes the ideas can become romanticized in the idea of 'soul mates' and relationships which go beyond a lifetime.

However, such relationships and soul families may be one of the most significant arguments for reincarnation. In addition, the developments of types, qualities and characteristics is connected. In particular, thinking of some of the most creative people in history, such as famous artists, writers and scientists it does seem questionable whether such developments could have been developed in one lifetime alone. It is hard to know how far it goes, especially in terms of the collective unconscious but it there definitely seems to be a drama of archetypal characteristics inherent in individual and social aspects of human life.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 19th, 2023, 3:44 pm
JackDaydream wrote: March 19th, 2023, 6:42 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 18th, 2023, 5:53 pm A thought out of left field regarding archetypes. While the actual designations are debatable, there are many ways in which people can be divided into types. There is always an uncanny sense when one meets a person whose appearance and demeanour is highly reminiscent of someone you know. They are of a similar "type", although Jung's and others' attempts to classify them - from astrology to modern personality inventories - show how elusive solid definitions of those types are. To some extent, it's a matter of "you know it when you see it".

It's fun to think that, somewhere amongst the billions, there are people who share many attributes to us and tend to occupy similar social niches. Further, in the future others will be born. In that sense, archetypes are essentially immortal. In any given population, sentient or otherwise, there will be a smaller number of dominant entities and their satellites, a larger population of smaller victims of the dominants, either via absorption, destruction or exile, catalysts, destroyers, the "in-crowd" and fringe dwellers, the complex and the simple, the more typical and less typical, the harder and softer, and so forth.
The issue of types and archetypes relates to the way in which people have universal and unique features. It brings in the mythical and story aspects of life, as spoken about in more detail by Joseph Campbell than by Jung. People have varying attributes and quests in life. Some may relate to ones like father or mother, although there are so many like the more obscure. The ones with which I feel most resonance with are shaman or the wounded healer, or even the fool. The archetypal figure of the wounded healer was the archetype which I felt to be of most importance when I was training in psychiatric nursing.

As for how we make connections with others in the mythical drama is variable because it involves making the important connections and what is projected. The outer and the inner may be at odds. For example, I may see someone who looks similar to someone I know but if I get to know them it is unlikely that they will be similar in a deeper way. Sometimes, it can be a problem if people project specific characteristics or attributes onto certain others. This may lead to a lot of difficulties in personal relationships and friendships.
Superficial similarities are not relevant. Fact is that there will be some people (aside from family) who are more like you in disposition and characteristics than any others. A thought experiment, imagine that everyone completed a personality inventory of ten thousand questions (a thought experiment because it could never be done). There would be various people around the globe who would have answered almost every question the same as yours. From memory, mystics who believe in reincarnation refer to "soul families".

Generally, I would go more by how people relate to one another with connections more than by answers to questions.
Of course, but how would you then propose to measure and quantify it? Besides, I don't think you have considered the level of detail of a 10,000 question survey. You could tease out the vast majority of major features in a person's connections and social dynamics. The Big Five test has sixty questions, and it is regarded as the most reliable personality inventory, considered efficacious in many industries.

JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 amThat is based on experience of relating to people and what is sometimes considered to be 'soul groups or families'. There seem to be definite connections between people which can last throughout life, although these may alter. On a personal level, I often feel that some people I come across are ones who I am 'meant to meet' whereas others are far more superficial acquaintances. For example, since moving to North London about 6 weeks ago I have tried to get to know some people locally and, so far, I have not met anyone with whom I have meaningful connections. Of course, sometimes the ideas can become romanticized in the idea of 'soul mates' and relationships which go beyond a lifetime.
That's more compatibility than similarity. Perhaps an example would help.I've avoided examples because they will always be much oversimplified, and I felt that this oversimplification would become the subject of discussion, rather than the broader dynamic I want to illustrate.

So, please remember that this is VERY oversimplified. In reality, there would be dozens of other attributes. Throughout the ages, there will always be couples where the man is like a heavyweight champ and the woman is the size of a young schoolgirl. In each generation, there will be always be some huge males who prefer dainty females and vice versa. In every population there are dominants and their satellites, catalysts and destroyers, in-group members and fringe dwellers. Each living member simply fills those roles for a while before being replaced.

JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 am However, such relationships and soul families may be one of the most significant arguments for reincarnation. In addition, the developments of types, qualities and characteristics is connected. In particular, thinking of some of the most creative people in history, such as famous artists, writers and scientists it does seem questionable whether such developments could have been developed in one lifetime alone. It is hard to know how far it goes, especially in terms of the collective unconscious but it there definitely seems to be a drama of archetypal characteristics inherent in individual and social aspects of human life.
The qualities passed down to geniuses don't need to be passed on by a previously deceased incarnation. Rather, qualities are passed down at a societal scale, and individuals variably express those qualities. For instance, if you were lost in the jungle and raised by chimps, how many of the qualities that you currently consider to be essential aspects of what makes you you would be present? Weren't these attributes already present in your society and you adopted the most resonant and available potential characteristics in those around you, and who preceded you? Monkey see, monkey do still applies.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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Sy Borg wrote: March 20th, 2023, 4:35 pm
JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 19th, 2023, 3:44 pm
JackDaydream wrote: March 19th, 2023, 6:42 am
The issue of types and archetypes relates to the way in which people have universal and unique features. It brings in the mythical and story aspects of life, as spoken about in more detail by Joseph Campbell than by Jung. People have varying attributes and quests in life. Some may relate to ones like father or mother, although there are so many like the more obscure. The ones with which I feel most resonance with are shaman or the wounded healer, or even the fool. The archetypal figure of the wounded healer was the archetype which I felt to be of most importance when I was training in psychiatric nursing.

As for how we make connections with others in the mythical drama is variable because it involves making the important connections and what is projected. The outer and the inner may be at odds. For example, I may see someone who looks similar to someone I know but if I get to know them it is unlikely that they will be similar in a deeper way. Sometimes, it can be a problem if people project specific characteristics or attributes onto certain others. This may lead to a lot of difficulties in personal relationships and friendships.
Superficial similarities are not relevant. Fact is that there will be some people (aside from family) who are more like you in disposition and characteristics than any others. A thought experiment, imagine that everyone completed a personality inventory of ten thousand questions (a thought experiment because it could never be done). There would be various people around the globe who would have answered almost every question the same as yours. From memory, mystics who believe in reincarnation refer to "soul families".

Generally, I would go more by how people relate to one another with connections more than by answers to questions.
Of course, but how would you then propose to measure and quantify it? Besides, I don't think you have considered the level of detail of a 10,000 question survey. You could tease out the vast majority of major features in a person's connections and social dynamics. The Big Five test has sixty questions, and it is regarded as the most reliable personality inventory, considered efficacious in many industries.

JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 amThat is based on experience of relating to people and what is sometimes considered to be 'soul groups or families'. There seem to be definite connections between people which can last throughout life, although these may alter. On a personal level, I often feel that some people I come across are ones who I am 'meant to meet' whereas others are far more superficial acquaintances. For example, since moving to North London about 6 weeks ago I have tried to get to know some people locally and, so far, I have not met anyone with whom I have meaningful connections. Of course, sometimes the ideas can become romanticized in the idea of 'soul mates' and relationships which go beyond a lifetime.
That's more compatibility than similarity. Perhaps an example would help.I've avoided examples because they will always be much oversimplified, and I felt that this oversimplification would become the subject of discussion, rather than the broader dynamic I want to illustrate.

So, please remember that this is VERY oversimplified. In reality, there would be dozens of other attributes. Throughout the ages, there will always be couples where the man is like a heavyweight champ and the woman is the size of a young schoolgirl. In each generation, there will be always be some huge males who prefer dainty females and vice versa. In every population there are dominants and their satellites, catalysts and destroyers, in-group members and fringe dwellers. Each living member simply fills those roles for a while before being replaced.

JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 am However, such relationships and soul families may be one of the most significant arguments for reincarnation. In addition, the developments of types, qualities and characteristics is connected. In particular, thinking of some of the most creative people in history, such as famous artists, writers and scientists it does seem questionable whether such developments could have been developed in one lifetime alone. It is hard to know how far it goes, especially in terms of the collective unconscious but it there definitely seems to be a drama of archetypal characteristics inherent in individual and social aspects of human life.
The qualities passed down to geniuses don't need to be passed on by a previously deceased incarnation. Rather, qualities are passed down at a societal scale, and individuals variably express those qualities. For instance, if you were lost in the jungle and raised by chimps, how many of the qualities that you currently consider to be essential aspects of what makes you you would be present? Weren't these attributes already present in your society and you adopted the most resonant and available potential characteristics in those around you, and who preceded you? Monkey see, monkey do still applies.
I don't rule out the reliability of a 10, 000 question survey but it might be rather daunting unless it replaced others, such as the process of end of school exams. Of course, it would rely upon the accuracy of answers and might need a lot of preparation of thought to enable honest awareness of oneself. It might be more valuable for the enabling of direction in life rather than judging ability on the measure of exams.

It is true that the characteristics of genius don't simply emerge from the collective unconscious but are passed on through social means. It may be about no one existing in a socially isolated bubble and individuals acquiring qualities through training and perceived social roles. An interesting example of projected roles and expectations was Krishnamurti. That is because he was perceived as a future spiritual world leader, rejected this, but went on to develop his own philosophy.

It is questionable to what extent any of those who were declared as genius, such as Van Gogh and William Blake would have been seen as such, it they had not been given a niche for expression of their creativity. In the twentieth first century they may have simply been seen as 'mentally ill' and been forced to take medication to normalise them. Personal narratives of identity and expression are derived partly from projected expectations and many may be held back in potential by the negative projections within the social contexts in which they exist.
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Re: What is Carl Jung's Significance for Philosophy?

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JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 11:01 pm
Sy Borg wrote: March 20th, 2023, 4:35 pm
JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 am
Sy Borg wrote: March 19th, 2023, 3:44 pm

Superficial similarities are not relevant. Fact is that there will be some people (aside from family) who are more like you in disposition and characteristics than any others. A thought experiment, imagine that everyone completed a personality inventory of ten thousand questions (a thought experiment because it could never be done). There would be various people around the globe who would have answered almost every question the same as yours. From memory, mystics who believe in reincarnation refer to "soul families".

Generally, I would go more by how people relate to one another with connections more than by answers to questions.
Of course, but how would you then propose to measure and quantify it? Besides, I don't think you have considered the level of detail of a 10,000 question survey. You could tease out the vast majority of major features in a person's connections and social dynamics. The Big Five test has sixty questions, and it is regarded as the most reliable personality inventory, considered efficacious in many industries.

JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 amThat is based on experience of relating to people and what is sometimes considered to be 'soul groups or families'. There seem to be definite connections between people which can last throughout life, although these may alter. On a personal level, I often feel that some people I come across are ones who I am 'meant to meet' whereas others are far more superficial acquaintances. For example, since moving to North London about 6 weeks ago I have tried to get to know some people locally and, so far, I have not met anyone with whom I have meaningful connections. Of course, sometimes the ideas can become romanticized in the idea of 'soul mates' and relationships which go beyond a lifetime.
That's more compatibility than similarity. Perhaps an example would help.I've avoided examples because they will always be much oversimplified, and I felt that this oversimplification would become the subject of discussion, rather than the broader dynamic I want to illustrate.

So, please remember that this is VERY oversimplified. In reality, there would be dozens of other attributes. Throughout the ages, there will always be couples where the man is like a heavyweight champ and the woman is the size of a young schoolgirl. In each generation, there will be always be some huge males who prefer dainty females and vice versa. In every population there are dominants and their satellites, catalysts and destroyers, in-group members and fringe dwellers. Each living member simply fills those roles for a while before being replaced.

JackDaydream wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:04 am However, such relationships and soul families may be one of the most significant arguments for reincarnation. In addition, the developments of types, qualities and characteristics is connected. In particular, thinking of some of the most creative people in history, such as famous artists, writers and scientists it does seem questionable whether such developments could have been developed in one lifetime alone. It is hard to know how far it goes, especially in terms of the collective unconscious but it there definitely seems to be a drama of archetypal characteristics inherent in individual and social aspects of human life.
The qualities passed down to geniuses don't need to be passed on by a previously deceased incarnation. Rather, qualities are passed down at a societal scale, and individuals variably express those qualities. For instance, if you were lost in the jungle and raised by chimps, how many of the qualities that you currently consider to be essential aspects of what makes you you would be present? Weren't these attributes already present in your society and you adopted the most resonant and available potential characteristics in those around you, and who preceded you? Monkey see, monkey do still applies.
I don't rule out the reliability of a 10, 000 question survey but it might be rather daunting unless it replaced others, such as the process of end of school exams. Of course, it would rely upon the accuracy of answers and might need a lot of preparation of thought to enable honest awareness of oneself. It might be more valuable for the enabling of direction in life rather than judging ability on the measure of exams.

It is true that the characteristics of genius don't simply emerge from the collective unconscious but are passed on through social means. It may be about no one existing in a socially isolated bubble and individuals acquiring qualities through training and perceived social roles. An interesting example of projected roles and expectations was Krishnamurti. That is because he was perceived as a future spiritual world leader, rejected this, but went on to develop his own philosophy.

It is questionable to what extent any of those who were declared as genius, such as Van Gogh and William Blake would have been seen as such, it they had not been given a niche for expression of their creativity. In the twentieth first century they may have simply been seen as 'mentally ill' and been forced to take medication to normalise them. Personal narratives of identity and expression are derived partly from projected expectations and many may be held back in potential by the negative projections within the social contexts in which they exist.
Of course people wouldn't do the survey. However, if they did, there would logically be a small number of people with strikingly similar answers to yours. They would be your type.

I have no doubt that some geniuses slipped through the cracks, being disregarded and tormented.
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2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021