What's the meaning of life?

[Barkun]

I think that religion is, in the pre phase, the construction of objective meaning, and in the post phase, the pursuit of that objective meaning; religion often branches out into sciences and humanities[see: Genesis and Proverbs].

Though life already has objective meaning, in that we must perform a certain way to survive, it's not appealing enough as it is packaged - man would see it edited somewhat to support his purposes.

Man's preferred objective meaning would, more commonly, involve more pleasure and personal creations.

I think a good question is, is man-made objective meaning acceptable in a world where there is already objective meaning? Can the two different objectives coincide? Is this meant?

To conclude, the meaning of life is to perform a certain way to continue existing as life, but there is a catch, it's not appealing enough and man feels compelled to create additional meaning using his intellect. Therefore, as well as the meaning of life, is the meaning of existing as life, and the two do or do not coincide. We will probably apply our own additional objective meaning which will make our lives more fulfilling.

[Pattern-chaser]

I think that religion is, in the pre phase, the construction of objective meaning, and in the post phase, the pursuit of that objective meaning; religion often branches out into sciences and humanities[see: Genesis and Proverbs].

And if the "religion" in question is not Christianity, what then? "Genesis" and "Proverbs" are only meaningful to Christians, so you're neglecting around ⅔ of humanity...?

[Barkun]

I think that religion is, in the pre phase, the construction of objective meaning, and in the post phase, the pursuit of that objective meaning; religion often branches out into sciences and humanities[see: Genesis and Proverbs].

And if the "religion" in question is not Christianity, what then? "Genesis" and "Proverbs" are only meaningful to Christians, so you're neglecting around ⅔ of humanity...?

There are instances where religion has branched out into science and humanities. I gave a single example of this. Another example of science would be found in the I Ching (Taoism), and a handful of quotes from the Quran are examples of humanities. This is not the core of my statement however, just some relative information I've added.

[Belindi]

I think that religion is, in the pre phase, the construction of objective meaning, and in the post phase, the pursuit of that objective meaning; religion often branches out into sciences and humanities[see: Genesis and Proverbs].

And if the "religion" in question is not Christianity, what then? "Genesis" and "Proverbs" are only meaningful to Christians, so you're neglecting around ⅔ of humanity...?

Wisdom literature such as Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job is common to all of the Near East. The themes of Wisdom literature are not confined to Xianity and are much older than Xianity. Me, I'd also include the Genesis creation story in wisdom literature.

I'd like to ask Barkun if there is a similarity between Wisdom literature of the Near East, and the wisdom of the Far East such as the TaoTeChing, and if Near East and Far East themes are the same.

[Yaayaayaa]

I believe life has no meaning. Hear me out, I am of the opinion that our everyday actions, memories and decisions shape our lives to have a meaning. That's why people find their purposes at different stages of their lives. One person can find it as early as in his or her early 20's and another in his or her late fifties. We go through life trying to find out it's meaning and others just want to survive each day. So what am I saying? I am saying to make the best of memories with loved ones and be kind everyday as you go through life, don't forget to be gentle and kind on yourself as you create your own version of the meaning of life.

[Barkun]

I think that religion is, in the pre phase, the construction of objective meaning, and in the post phase, the pursuit of that objective meaning; religion often branches out into sciences and humanities[see: Genesis and Proverbs].

And if the "religion" in question is not Christianity, what then? "Genesis" and "Proverbs" are only meaningful to Christians, so you're neglecting around ⅔ of humanity...?

Wisdom literature such as Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job is common to all of the Near East. The themes of Wisdom literature are not confined to Xianity and are much older than Xianity. Me, I'd also include the Genesis creation story in wisdom literature.

I'd like to ask Barkun if there is a similarity between Wisdom literature of the Near East, and the wisdom of the Far East such as the TaoTeChing, and if Near East and Far East themes are the same.

In so far as it's wisdom literature, the two are regarded the same. However, there is more wisdom literature in the Tao Te Jing than there is in the bible, per se. The bible often talks about history, changes that occurred in society over the course of time, and all historical people and events it mentions.

I would regard genesis as science, as it's not a story, it's perhaps a description of a thought factual chain of events. You may dismiss it as literature but I don't think literature was intended.

[Barkun]

To add. The story in revelations of the rider on the white horse called faithful and true, is just as wise as nature is like a bellows from the Tao Ta Jing. There are moments where this makes sense, they're both metaphors that describe life phenomena. I've seen people making the sacrifice, their 'robes dipped in the blood' of those who have fallen, etc.

[Belindi]

I think that religion is, in the pre phase, the construction of objective meaning, and in the post phase, the pursuit of that objective meaning; religion often branches out into sciences and humanities[see: Genesis and Proverbs].

And if the "religion" in question is not Christianity, what then? "Genesis" and "Proverbs" are only meaningful to Christians, so you're neglecting around ⅔ of humanity...?

Wisdom literature such as Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job is common to all of the Near East. The themes of Wisdom literature are not confined to Xianity and are much older than Xianity. Me, I'd also include the Genesis creation story in wisdom literature.

I'd like to ask Barkun if there is a similarity between Wisdom literature of the Near East, and the wisdom of the Far East such as the TaoTeChing, and if Near East and Far East themes are the same.

In so far as it's wisdom literature, the two are regarded the same. However, there is more wisdom literature in the Tao Te Jing than there is in the bible, per se. The bible often talks about history, changes that occurred in society over the course of time, and all historical people and events it mentions.

I would regard genesis as science, as it's not a story, it's perhaps a description of a thought factual chain of events. You may dismiss it as literature but I don't think literature was intended.

I don't "dismiss" literature. Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

Genesis is a book that contains several stories. A story is a narrative communication; a narrative is a sequence of events that are linked together in time.

Wisdom literature is a specific literary genre. Science fiction and historical novels are other literary genres.

[Pattern-chaser]

Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

The trouble with "myth" is:

Since "myth" is popularly used to describe stories that are not objectively true, the identification of a narrative as a myth can be highly controversial.

Myth is understood, in practice, to refer to something that is specifically not true; a 'story'. Which is a great shame, IMO. I think myth could and should be a more constructive and valuable word. It does refer to some things that are made-up, stories, but also to things that aren't. I think the wisdom literature you describe illustrates this well, as it captures wisdom and passes it on in story-form. Stories are one of the most memorable ways we have of passing on things we've learned.

[Belindi]

Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

The trouble with "myth" is:

Since "myth" is popularly used to describe stories that are not objectively true, the identification of a narrative as a myth can be highly controversial.

Myth is understood, in practice, to refer to something that is specifically not true; a 'story'. Which is a great shame, IMO. I think myth could and should be a more constructive and valuable word. It does refer to some things that are made-up, stories, but also to things that aren't. I think the wisdom literature you describe illustrates this well, as it captures wisdom and passes it on in story-form. Stories are one of the most memorable ways we have of passing on things we've learned.

Yes, I know. It's a shame when the anthropological, religious, psychological, historical, philosophical, and literary meaning of 'myth' is unknown. Anyway, let's keep up the good work!

[Sculptor1]

And if the "religion" in question is not Christianity, what then? "Genesis" and "Proverbs" are only meaningful to Christians, so you're neglecting around ⅔ of humanity...?

Wisdom literature such as Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job is common to all of the Near East. The themes of Wisdom literature are not confined to Xianity and are much older than Xianity. Me, I'd also include the Genesis creation story in wisdom literature.

I'd like to ask Barkun if there is a similarity between Wisdom literature of the Near East, and the wisdom of the Far East such as the TaoTeChing, and if Near East and Far East themes are the same.

In so far as it's wisdom literature, the two are regarded the same. However, there is more wisdom literature in the Tao Te Jing than there is in the bible, per se. The bible often talks about history, changes that occurred in society over the course of time, and all historical people and events it mentions.

I would regard genesis as science, as it's not a story, it's perhaps a description of a thought factual chain of events. You may dismiss it as literature but I don't think literature was intended.

I don't "dismiss" literature. Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

Genesis is a book that contains several stories. A story is a narrative communication; a narrative is a sequence of events that are linked together in time.

Wisdom literature is a specific literary genre. Science fiction and historical novels are other literary genres.

Such a rare event when your posts are purely descriptive adding nothing to the thread.
I looked through this post, but like Fawlty looking through a blanc mange for the Duck A l'orange I found nothing.

The genre is of no importance historical, science fiction, myth, parables, stories wisdom literature what ever - they can all give meanings to life and talk about purpose.
Science Fiction is particularly good a mythical construction and asking the major questions.
The only differences between genres here is that it is religious texts, whilst at their most mythical claim to have the absolute truth. History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative.

But it is only with science fiction that the truths it offers are openly and honestly opinions, never pretending to be the truth since the narrative is so obviously not factual.

[Belindi]

Wisdom literature such as Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job is common to all of the Near East. The themes of Wisdom literature are not confined to Xianity and are much older than Xianity. Me, I'd also include the Genesis creation story in wisdom literature.

I'd like to ask Barkun if there is a similarity between Wisdom literature of the Near East, and the wisdom of the Far East such as the TaoTeChing, and if Near East and Far East themes are the same.

In so far as it's wisdom literature, the two are regarded the same. However, there is more wisdom literature in the Tao Te Jing than there is in the bible, per se. The bible often talks about history, changes that occurred in society over the course of time, and all historical people and events it mentions.

I would regard genesis as science, as it's not a story, it's perhaps a description of a thought factual chain of events. You may dismiss it as literature but I don't think literature was intended.

I don't "dismiss" literature. Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

Genesis is a book that contains several stories. A story is a narrative communication; a narrative is a sequence of events that are linked together in time.

Wisdom literature is a specific literary genre. Science fiction and historical novels are other literary genres.

Such a rare event when your posts are purely descriptive adding nothing to the thread.
I looked through this post, but like Fawlty looking through a blanc mange for the Duck A l'orange I found nothing.

The genre is of no importance historical, science fiction, myth, parables, stories wisdom literature what ever - they can all give meanings to life and talk about purpose.
Science Fiction is particularly good a mythical construction and asking the major questions.
The only differences between genres here is that it is religious texts, whilst at their most mythical claim to have the absolute truth. History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative.

But it is only with science fiction that the truths it offers are openly and honestly opinions, never pretending to be the truth since the narrative is so obviously not factual.

I cannot think of any myths that lack something of historical/geographical substance. For instance the myth of King Arthur has had a long tenure in people's imaginations, and this myth too has some substance in events after the Romans abandoned Britain, and the human and physical geography of the Island.

The myths that Xianity adopted such as the Genesis creation myth, or the Virgin birth myth are less substantial than the King Arthur myth. But the creation myth does seem to understand that the existence of animals depend on the existence of light, land, and water. The Virgin Birth myth is obviously a re-working of pagan fertility awareness.

All institutionalised religions become authorities and authorities all claim to have the historical Truth. I am interested in persuading readers here that myths can help us to access not only ideas about human life and society but also intriguing historical/geographical details.

When you say " History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative. " Can I take it you are referring to the impossibility of complete objectivity in the interpretation of data?

[Sculptor1]

In so far as it's wisdom literature, the two are regarded the same. However, there is more wisdom literature in the Tao Te Jing than there is in the bible, per se. The bible often talks about history, changes that occurred in society over the course of time, and all historical people and events it mentions.

I would regard genesis as science, as it's not a story, it's perhaps a description of a thought factual chain of events. You may dismiss it as literature but I don't think literature was intended.

I don't "dismiss" literature. Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

Genesis is a book that contains several stories. A story is a narrative communication; a narrative is a sequence of events that are linked together in time.

Wisdom literature is a specific literary genre. Science fiction and historical novels are other literary genres.

Such a rare event when your posts are purely descriptive adding nothing to the thread.
I looked through this post, but like Fawlty looking through a blanc mange for the Duck A l'orange I found nothing.

The genre is of no importance historical, science fiction, myth, parables, stories wisdom literature what ever - they can all give meanings to life and talk about purpose.
Science Fiction is particularly good a mythical construction and asking the major questions.
The only differences between genres here is that it is religious texts, whilst at their most mythical claim to have the absolute truth. History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative.

But it is only with science fiction that the truths it offers are openly and honestly opinions, never pretending to be the truth since the narrative is so obviously not factual.

I cannot think of any myths that lack something of historical/geographical substance. For instance the myth of King Arthur has had a long tenure in people's imaginations, and this myth too has some substance in events after the Romans abandoned Britain, and the human and physical geography of the Island.

The myth of sisyphus only seems historical since we see it as "Greek" - but it had no historical significance at the time.
Many other myths about god do not inhabit specific historical locations except ny hindsight.

The myths that Xianity adopted such as the Genesis creation myth, or the Virgin birth myth are less substantial than the King Arthur myth. But the creation myth does seem to understand that the existence of animals depend on the existence of light, land, and water. The Virgin Birth myth is obviously a re-working of pagan fertility awareness.

All institutionalised religions become authorities and authorities all claim to have the historical Truth. I am interested in persuading readers here that myths can help us to access not only ideas about human life and society but also intriguing historical/geographical details.

Myth is a subversion of history, not to be trusted.
The Troy myth is the mother of all ****-ups as is the myth of Atlantis which just makes fools of those wishing to locate it as containing some kind of truth.

When you say " History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative. " Can I take it you are referring to the impossibility of complete objectivity in the interpretation of data?

No I'm talking about practical rewriting for political purposes.
America winning the war in Vietnam, for example.
There is no objectivity here. ALl is bias. Occasionally you can look back and unpack the myth.
For example the myth that Lincoln freed the slaves.
THis was never the intention of Abraham Lincoln - it was a measure he was forced to take. The real argument was about how to colonise the west. The south wanted to use slaves, whilst Lincoln wanted to colonise not with slaves, but without blacks at all. He wanted to send them all back to Africa. In the end the North won, the slaves were emancipated, but black people continued to suffer prejudice and racism and though were able to colonise to the west their actual opportunities were severely curtailed.

Other myths common enough.
Veni Vedi Vici of the invasion of Britain. He might have did a bit of VENI, VEDI, but he certainly did not VICI. He was sent home twice.
The battle of Britain
All are drenched in misinformation and simplification.

[Belindi]

I don't "dismiss" literature. Literature is written matter. I think you might investigate the nature of myth from the point of view of the anthropologist or the historian, with special reference to the Genesis creation myth.

Genesis is a book that contains several stories. A story is a narrative communication; a narrative is a sequence of events that are linked together in time.

Wisdom literature is a specific literary genre. Science fiction and historical novels are other literary genres.

Such a rare event when your posts are purely descriptive adding nothing to the thread.
I looked through this post, but like Fawlty looking through a blanc mange for the Duck A l'orange I found nothing.

The genre is of no importance historical, science fiction, myth, parables, stories wisdom literature what ever - they can all give meanings to life and talk about purpose.
Science Fiction is particularly good a mythical construction and asking the major questions.
The only differences between genres here is that it is religious texts, whilst at their most mythical claim to have the absolute truth. History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative.

But it is only with science fiction that the truths it offers are openly and honestly opinions, never pretending to be the truth since the narrative is so obviously not factual.

I cannot think of any myths that lack something of historical/geographical substance. For instance the myth of King Arthur has had a long tenure in people's imaginations, and this myth too has some substance in events after the Romans abandoned Britain, and the human and physical geography of the Island.

The myth of sisyphus only seems historical since we see it as "Greek" - but it had no historical significance at the time.
Many other myths about god do not inhabit specific historical locations except ny hindsight.

The myths that Xianity adopted such as the Genesis creation myth, or the Virgin birth myth are less substantial than the King Arthur myth. But the creation myth does seem to understand that the existence of animals depend on the existence of light, land, and water. The Virgin Birth myth is obviously a re-working of pagan fertility awareness.

All institutionalised religions become authorities and authorities all claim to have the historical Truth. I am interested in persuading readers here that myths can help us to access not only ideas about human life and society but also intriguing historical/geographical details.

Myth is a subversion of history, not to be trusted.
The Troy myth is the mother of all **** as is the myth of Atlantis which just makes fools of those wishing to locate it as containing some kind of truth.

When you say " History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative. " Can I take it you are referring to the impossibility of complete objectivity in the interpretation of data?

No I'm talking about practical rewriting for political purposes.
America winning the war in Vietnam, for example.
There is no objectivity here. ALl is bias. Occasionally you can look back and unpack the myth.
For example the myth that Lincoln freed the slaves.
THis was never the intention of Abraham Lincoln - it was a measure he was forced to take. The real argument was about how to colonise the west. The south wanted to use slaves, whilst Lincoln wanted to colonise not with slaves, but without blacks at all. He wanted to send them all back to Africa. In the end the North won, the slaves were emancipated, but black people continued to suffer prejudice and racism and though were able to colonise to the west their actual opportunities were severely curtailed.

Other myths common enough.
Veni Vedi Vici of the invasion of Britain. He might have did a bit of VENI, VEDI, but he certainly did not VICI. He was sent home twice.
The battle of Britain
All are drenched in misinformation and simplification.

It matters a lot that we distinguish between myth and propaganda. Your examples of myths are all examples of propaganda. Goebbels is a prime example of deliberately using myths for propaganda. Few people even today can distinguish between good sources and bad sources and this aspect of history teaching in schools should be energetically addressed.

Myths too can be critically examined for their core ideas and vestigial evidence. Babies and bathwater.

BTW I thought the Romans had been rumbled as pitiless colonists with superior battle strategies.

[Sculptor1]

Such a rare event when your posts are purely descriptive adding nothing to the thread.
I looked through this post, but like Fawlty looking through a blanc mange for the Duck A l'orange I found nothing.

The genre is of no importance historical, science fiction, myth, parables, stories wisdom literature what ever - they can all give meanings to life and talk about purpose.
Science Fiction is particularly good a mythical construction and asking the major questions.
The only differences between genres here is that it is religious texts, whilst at their most mythical claim to have the absolute truth. History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative.

But it is only with science fiction that the truths it offers are openly and honestly opinions, never pretending to be the truth since the narrative is so obviously not factual.

I cannot think of any myths that lack something of historical/geographical substance. For instance the myth of King Arthur has had a long tenure in people's imaginations, and this myth too has some substance in events after the Romans abandoned Britain, and the human and physical geography of the Island.

The myth of sisyphus only seems historical since we see it as "Greek" - but it had no historical significance at the time.
Many other myths about god do not inhabit specific historical locations except ny hindsight.

The myths that Xianity adopted such as the Genesis creation myth, or the Virgin birth myth are less substantial than the King Arthur myth. But the creation myth does seem to understand that the existence of animals depend on the existence of light, land, and water. The Virgin Birth myth is obviously a re-working of pagan fertility awareness.

All institutionalised religions become authorities and authorities all claim to have the historical Truth. I am interested in persuading readers here that myths can help us to access not only ideas about human life and society but also intriguing historical/geographical details.

Myth is a subversion of history, not to be trusted.
The Troy myth is the mother of all **** as is the myth of Atlantis which just makes fools of those wishing to locate it as containing some kind of truth.

When you say " History whilst pretending to be factual often has its myth hidden behind the narrative. " Can I take it you are referring to the impossibility of complete objectivity in the interpretation of data?

No I'm talking about practical rewriting for political purposes.
America winning the war in Vietnam, for example.
There is no objectivity here. ALl is bias. Occasionally you can look back and unpack the myth.
For example the myth that Lincoln freed the slaves.
THis was never the intention of Abraham Lincoln - it was a measure he was forced to take. The real argument was about how to colonise the west. The south wanted to use slaves, whilst Lincoln wanted to colonise not with slaves, but without blacks at all. He wanted to send them all back to Africa. In the end the North won, the slaves were emancipated, but black people continued to suffer prejudice and racism and though were able to colonise to the west their actual opportunities were severely curtailed.

Other myths common enough.
Veni Vedi Vici of the invasion of Britain. He might have did a bit of VENI, VEDI, but he certainly did not VICI. He was sent home twice.
The battle of Britain
All are drenched in misinformation and simplification.

It matters a lot that we distinguish between myth and propaganda. Your examples of myths are all examples of propaganda. Goebbels is a prime example of deliberately using myths for propaganda. Few people even today can distinguish between good sources and bad sources and this aspect of history teaching in schools should be energetically addressed.

Myths too can be critically examined for their core ideas and vestigial evidence. Babies and bathwater.

BTW I thought the Romans had been rumbled as pitiless colonists with superior battle strategies.

Tutut.
Do you think the myth of Lincoln is any different from propaganda? Or maybe you mean something else.
Myths be then propaganda or not both employ the selective use of truth to justify lies.

I like to see some examples.
I do not think that the point of a myth is to unpack it for vestigial truth. It's just **** we say to bolster our interests.
If you want to keep stuff you give the baby bathwater schtick, if you want a complete revision you use the A new broom sweeps clean.
If you look hard enough most of these saying have their opposites and the same goes with the moral lesson of the myth.

Rome definitely had superior battle strategies when they won. and they were keen to valorise the fallen enemy too. For the more strong they were; the more heroic appeared the legions. (see the Fallen Gaul statue- heroic and brave in defeat)
Except when they had their arses handed them on a plate by "inferior" forces such as Caesar's failed 2 invasions of Britain, where he was force to declare that the land of bogs and fog was just not worth it. And, of course the hybris of Varus who lost his legions in the Teutoburg forests, and the lost Ninth in bonny Caledonia.