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How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

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Rockturnal
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Rockturnal » May 23rd, 2012, 7:29 pm

Philosophical ideas are your abstract children.

Fleetfootphil
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Fleetfootphil » May 25th, 2012, 9:38 pm

I don't have any abstract children, yet I still have poetry- and art, and music. Can anyone explain how being abstract makes an idea more profound, and or illuminating, than an earth bound image projected in a common way? Thank you for your time.

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Altruist
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Altruist » July 14th, 2012, 3:29 pm

Scott, this is quite a beautiful insight. I like how you give us the details. Some of it came on to me naturally, but I put a little empathy in the mix of it all.

This is something worth rereading. This will for sure be in my bookmark list. Like the program Luminosity to help with my memory skills I'll read this once a day as well.

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BaruchSpinoza
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by BaruchSpinoza » July 27th, 2012, 2:29 pm

Some good advice here.

The only thing I would add is, make an effort to define your terms.
Often philosophical discussion can descend into trivial word games in which combatants are in exact agreement with the state of the topic or the issue discussed and the only difference was the fact that they were simply using a particular word differently.

Or the argument turns out to be little more than a tautology once the the definitional cards are on the table.

For example the ideas behind reason, purpose or function can have multiple meanings. It can be useful to consult the canon. Aristotle is very good on this issue with his 4 causes, and talking about his ideas can be an end in themselves - sorry for the pun.

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TheAutocrat
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by TheAutocrat » July 27th, 2012, 8:01 pm

Where's the "like" button for this kind of thread? Nice one Scott!
"I cannot afford to waste my time making money." "The child is father of the Man." "What force is more potent than love?" "I shut my eyes in order to see." "There is no such thing as society."

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A Helical Vim
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by A Helical Vim » August 12th, 2012, 11:53 am

BaruchSpinoza wrote:Some good advice here.

The only thing I would add is, make an effort to define your terms.
Often philosophical discussion can descend into trivial word games in which combatants are in exact agreement with the state of the topic or the issue discussed and the only difference was the fact that they were simply using a particular word differently.

Or the argument turns out to be little more than a tautology once the the definitional cards are on the table.

For example the ideas behind reason, purpose or function can have multiple meanings. It can be useful to consult the canon. Aristotle is very good on this issue with his 4 causes, and talking about his ideas can be an end in themselves - sorry for the pun.
I wonder how long people actually take to create their posts. Do they rattle their ideas off very quickly with only the briefest of spell checks? Someone from the community please let me know!
"Whoever wishes to foresee the future must consult the past; for human events ever resemble those of preceding times." -Machiavelli

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3uGH7D4MLj
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by 3uGH7D4MLj » January 5th, 2013, 1:04 pm

Hi, I'm new here and this "how to post most effectively" thread is interesting. Funny how some of the posting problems have popped up in this thread about how to avoid the posting problems!

There is often a subtext to a post. No matter the subject, the subtext is "I'm smart, you're stupid." Sometimes the subtext is very subtle, but it still irritates. If we can scan our posts before posting and eliminate this subtext it will help a lot.

To the person who said that we should prepare and learn the terms and concepts, I would say ok, to a point. There are many of us who haven't read the books, don't know the philosophical definitions of the words, and aren't likely to learn them before posting here. Please bear with us and help us learn the lingo.

"What do you mean by that?" is a very useful question. It means that I'm reading closely and want to understand more. I think it's a great question and I don't mean it in any threatening way.

A discussion like this is a team sport and we're all on the same team. If we help each other to understand and grow, the discussions may get better. We can hope.

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Toadny
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Toadny » January 22nd, 2013, 8:19 am

3uGH7D4MLj wrote:No matter the subject, the subtext is "I'm smart, you're stupid."
Speak for yourself.

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3uGH7D4MLj
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by 3uGH7D4MLj » January 22nd, 2013, 9:50 am

Toadny wrote:
Speak for yourself.
Yeah, absolutely. good one.
fair to say

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Zer0
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Zer0 » February 13th, 2013, 2:23 am

Best way to have productive conversations is to have multiple. Mainly because info takes time to sink in and contemplate.

You'll gain more with a 10 min philosophical conversation every other day w/ someone than spending that amount of time in one.

Changing Minds by I forget William Gardner perhaps is a good book.... main thing I took away was that changing minds is a slow process, and I find that to be true. Although we do at times feel like we have Eureka moments of insight really those moments are the result of thoughts that were building up and digesting in our mind for a while.

The natural response from any and everyone tends to be to disagree and get defensive playing either the devils advocate or being vehemently opposed if it is something we disagree w/. But regardless of how much people disagree they do take counter arguments presented to them into consideration it just takes time to contemplate w/ other ideas. The same is true of all of us we grow and gain from insights from each other but its not an immediate process.

Fleetfootphil
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Fleetfootphil » February 14th, 2013, 10:43 pm

We could also anwer questions, like where and how does one unsubscribe.

Belinda
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Belinda » April 13th, 2013, 2:55 pm

A Helical Vim wrote:
I wonder how long people actually take to create their posts. Do they rattle their ideas off very quickly with only the briefest of spell checks? Someone from the community please let me know!
I often take a long time to sort out my thoughts and getting them into language that makes sense helps me to have the ideas and even to recognise what I believe. I edit my posts because I think of something when I am doing something else. I am sometimes careless about typos and spelling .
Socialist

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Rayliikanen
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Rayliikanen » May 26th, 2013, 9:52 pm

Unfortunately, not everyone on this forum follows these standards. I faced a personal ad hominem attack against my character this morning for having had the audacity to post a response to the person asking me a question, and was railed against in return, and accused of being arrogant, and all sorts of other things, and all for merely posting a reasoned out response. The post I found was deleted before I could tag it and send it to the moderators. Maybe the poster saw the venom of his own response and deleted it, but not nearly fast enough. My advice, if you feel your blood boil at what someone else has said, check yourself, think things through clearly, and avoid tearing into other people with insults and vindictive aspersions that do not belong on this or any other philosophy forum. This is not a bar room full of mindless stupid drunks with nothing better to do than try and pick a fight. This is a philosophy forum. We do not know each other on a personal level, at least for the most part I think, and it is all too easy to invent an image of the person we're responding to, and then vent venom at that image, forgetting there's an actual person, just like yourself, ready to take in what you have to offer. The post I read this morning that viciously attacked my character ruined my whole day. I started looking for a way to unsubscribe from this forum, but couldn't find an easy way out. And I'm still looking for a reason why I should stay. I find some things being contributed here worth while. Especially the links posted to other worthwhile sites, like the podcasts from King's University in the U.K., but if I have to encounter another insulting experiencing like the one that sent me into a state of depression this morning, then what's the point. I don't believe in self abuse, any more than I believe in abusing others.

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HIHIHIHIHI
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by HIHIHIHIHI » May 27th, 2013, 2:42 pm

Rayliikanen wrote: I don't believe in self abuse, any more than I believe in abusing others.
Thanks for demonstrating why you need God in your life. That makes it much easier for me to understand the actual reason behind your theistic practices. I was correct to attack you personally with all due criticism. This was surely a personal confliction you have, and it only bleeds into your philosophy; philosophy is something I love dearly, thus creating a personal conflict in me, between us. Your need to take the spotlight in these discussions shows that you need to show something of yourself, but the details behind your need for attention elude me at the moment, but I'm sure if you stay, I'll soon figure that out as well.
If you say you know me, then you do not know me.

If you think you know me, then you probably know me.

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Rayliikanen
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Re: How To Have Productive Philosophical Conversations

Post by Rayliikanen » May 31st, 2013, 11:22 pm

HIHIHIHIHI

You're misinterpreting me. I do not need God in my life. I simply believe there is such a Being/Mind who is also the creator of this universe. This is not a need, it is a recognition. Atheists/agnostics are always pegging theists wrong with this opinion that theists need God in their lives. To pigeon hole/label theists in this way puts an end to arguments and nullifies philosophical discussion on such issues. Other people are not always that easy to figure out. People say things that they might change their minds about at a future time, or they might oppose one thing now and see the sense in it later. Human beings are complex. I don't presume to know you, or what's behind your philosophy, so why should you be so presumptuous as to think that you'll be able to figure me out? My wife hasn't even succeeded in doing that yet, but she knows me better than anyone else. I do not agree with many of the philosophers I read, but I attempt to study and read what they have to offer as both a mental challenge for me and to gain some insights that I never had before. I try and look at things from a positive perspective, and I suspect you do as well. You're wrong about me wanting to take the spotlight. This is a philosophy forum and I post things to it because philosophy is a world of ideas and I think this world is more entertaining and constructive than wasting time watching television. So I appreciate your love of philosophy. This is one thing we can both agree on I'm sure. I hope you continue with this pursuit of philosophy, but have you heard what Kierkegaard said: "If you label me you negate me." When people think they've figured other people out, have they truly figured them out? Or have they just succeeded in negating them?

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