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Why do bad things happen to good people?

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Dadman
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Post by Dadman » August 19th, 2011, 8:56 pm

Hey all .. I'm new here .. mainly just checking this place out .. so please bare with me . . . WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE ??? . . . probably because good people live and move among the bad . . . I find that bad people affect ( to one degree or another ) everyone around them .. this is why we must have 911 / policeman / jails and courts $$$$$$$ . . what would it be like for the finances of the average American family if we didn't have to spend all this money . . . God bless =:0]

PhillerUp
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by PhillerUp » August 20th, 2011, 7:47 am

Alexander17 wrote:I understand that everyone goes through trouble in their lives no matter how innocent or guilty they are, but why do horrible things happen to good people? To people who never did anything wrong? What are your thoughts?
How do you know they are good?

Do horrible things happen to Buddhist monks?

Chasqg
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Post by Chasqg » August 20th, 2011, 8:01 am

A Buddhist monk would regard anything that happened to him as being the result of his own karmic debts. Thus it would not be 'bad' in the way we would think of it.
In fact, he might well be pleased about it, as it would mean that he had paid off one more karmic debt via the suffering he has just endured.

Prof
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Prof » September 3rd, 2011, 4:40 pm

Alexander17 asks Why do bad things happen to good people?
I agree with the answer given by Meleagar in the second post in this thread. Also liked what Chasqg told us about the Bhuddist philosophy. In my (82-years-worth of) experience, it is true that "What goes around, comes around." There is some truth to the notion of Karma.

Here is a book I found to be helpful in understanding people:

Bruce Hamstra,
Why Good People Do Bad Things: How to Make Moral Choices in an Immoral World (1966)


My response to your question, Alexander, is this: If you get involved with some pursuit, or with some person you love or care for, sooner or later you will suffer a loss. Your parents or your spouse - or even your child - will die. You will mourn. That may be "bad" but it is unavoidable. Taking failures and losses in a way that builds your character means that the loss, the going through "the acid crucible of life" has made you stronger. You weren't a cry-baby about it, you took it in stride. You passed the test. You are now more mature, and a much more interesting person than those who have not yet experienced such a loss at all. [I would add that most aches and pains, most disease and ill health, is avoidable if you live right - according to the laws of nature, and eating right (fresh , raw, whole fruits and vegetables) is a large part of it. Exercise, fresh air, plenty of sleep helps too.) Become a vegetarian at an early age, and emphasize the raw salads, and you will see amazing results!]

I can back up any claim I make with evidence. This is the ethical procedure to follow -according to the Unified Theory of Ethics by M.C. Katz.

I welcome all questions and comments.
To learn more on ethical topics, check out these references:onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... amp;t=6097

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Intuitiv3infid3l
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Intuitiv3infid3l » September 6th, 2011, 7:43 pm

Meleagar wrote:
Alexander17 wrote:I understand that everyone goes through trouble in their lives no matter how innocent or guilty they are, but why do horrible things happen to good people? To people who never did anything wrong? What are your thoughts?
I've always considered such times to be opportunities for me to test myself and views. I would not be the person I am today if not for the bad (as well as the good) things that have happened to me.
There is a difference between bad and horrible. I like it when bad things occasionally happen to me as well because it does test me and make me stronger. However, when way too often there is mind-boggling GRIEF which would cause 95% of the population to commit suicide, you tend to not want it to happen no matter what.

-- Updated Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:48 pm to add the following --
Prof wrote:Alexander17 asks Why do bad things happen to good people?
I agree with the answer given by Meleagar in the second post in this thread. Also liked what Chasqg told us about the Bhuddist philosophy. In my (82-years-worth of) experience, it is true that "What goes around, comes around." There is some truth to the notion of Karma.

Here is a book I found to be helpful in understanding people:

Bruce Hamstra,
Why Good People Do Bad Things: How to Make Moral Choices in an Immoral World (1966)


My response to your question, Alexander, is this: If you get involved with some pursuit, or with some person you love or care for, sooner or later you will suffer a loss. Your parents or your spouse - or even your child - will die. You will mourn. That may be "bad" but it is unavoidable. Taking failures and losses in a way that builds your character means that the loss, the going through "the acid crucible of life" has made you stronger. You weren't a cry-baby about it, you took it in stride. You passed the test. You are now more mature, and a much more interesting person than those who have not yet experienced such a loss at all. [I would add that most aches and pains, most disease and ill health, is avoidable if you live right - according to the laws of nature, and eating right (fresh , raw, whole fruits and vegetables) is a large part of it. Exercise, fresh air, plenty of sleep helps too.) Become a vegetarian at an early age, and emphasize the raw salads, and you will see amazing results!]

I can back up any claim I make with evidence. This is the ethical procedure to follow -according to the Unified Theory of Ethics by M.C. Katz.

I welcome all questions and comments.
You make it sound too easy. Once somebody is enlightened enough to understand all the injustices done against him/her and him/her only (because the rest of population is not enlightened enough to notice it) you are screwed. No matter how much you exercise or diet correctly or whatever. That GRIEF EATS you from the inside out and there is NO solution for it except to fight the injustice. However, 99.99% of the population are not enlightened enough to even realize the injustice and thus you are alone and thus you are ineffective to create change and thus you suffer and suffer is be all and end all. Then of course, you are still human so you need a human connection, but you hate other people because you cannot relate to them and you just see them being dumb and having fun, which makes it worse. Bottom line: enlightened ones were made to suffer horrendously. You can't even rely on 'professional' medical intervention because you know all they will do is put you on counterproductive pills. You are trapped in a bubble, you can see outside, but you can't get out, nobody can hear you, they can see you and you look normal and just fine to them, and you are forced to see other people feel compassion for other people that go through 1% of the pain you go through. Good people were made to suffer.
morality=equality

[capitalism+libertarianism]=enforced inequality=immorality

therefore: conforming to [capitalism+libertarianism]=immorality

Prof
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Prof » September 20th, 2011, 10:42 pm

Intuitiv3infid3l wrote:There is a difference between bad and horrible. I like it when bad things occasionally happen to me as well because it does test me and make me stronger. However, when way too often there is mind-boggling GRIEF which would cause 95% of the population to commit suicide, you tend to not want it to happen no matter what.....
Intuitiv3infid3l wrote: Prof wrote: "I can back up any claim I make with evidence. This is the ethical procedure to follow -according to the Unified Theory of Ethics by M .C. Katz."

.... 99.99% of the population are not enlightened enough to even realize the injustice and thus you are alone ....you look normal and just fine to them, and you are forced to see other people feel compassion for other people that go through 1% of the pain you go through. Good people were made to suffer.
You are NOT alone. Their are many, many who care as deeply as you do; you just haven't gotten in contact with them yet, haven't made the connection.

I strongly disagree that "Good people were made to suffer." See what I wrote to edy at the Money vs. Ethics thread at the Ethics and Morality Forum. (3rd post down.)

Just what is this unspeakable horror that you are going through? Tell us more about it. You write: "too often there is mind-boggling GRIEF which would cause 95% of the population to commit suicide." Can you clarify this a bit more? What do you believe is the cause of the grief? What event(s)are you grieving?

p.s. That theory of Ethics alluded to earlier has four parts to it. Here are links to them, so that you can get some idea of the wide range of applications the new paradigm for ethics has:

For the booklet A UNIFIED THEORY OF ETHICS, use
wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/A%20UNI ... ETHICS.pdf

For the paper, ETHICAL ADVENTURES
wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ET ... NTURES.pdf

For the essay, ETHICAL EXPLORATIONS
wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ET ... ONS%20.pdf

For the paper ASPECTS OF ETHICS
wadeharvey.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/Aspects% ... ics%20.pdf

Please overlook the typos and the minor mistakes ; approach the model with a constructive attitude. If you like what it's trying to do, teach it to the world.

Being busy with a project on which you are strongly focused will help in alleviating some of the grief.
To learn more on ethical topics, check out these references:onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... amp;t=6097

elusive_thinker
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by elusive_thinker » September 26th, 2011, 4:44 am

Again as i keep seeing here among these philosophical discsussions to often people would rather duscuss the definition of words rather than discuss the question at hand. I am aware that in some cases this maybe nesacarry but in this case i think logic should be able to determine what the question is insuating.
Bad things...things that make us sad, upset, un happy or stressed.
Good people....those who don't intentionaly cause the previously stated (bad things) to others i think we can realisticly accept what the question means.

I heard the word karma used before, i believe this is simply a human mis-conception basicly used as a scare tactic to influence other people to do good things "otherwise there will consequences"

Why do bad things happen to good people....well the same reason bad things happen to the rest of us.

The things that happen (weather good or bad) are a result to the action that happened in the past. What ever the reason that determined the action weather it was influenced by a conscious action or was a result of the butterfly effect. I think the term that best explains it would be S##t happens. There is always a reason it happens but there is no reason that it happens to a particular person. Another term i will in-corperate is "wrong place wrong time"

That is my opinion anyway
It is easy to turn a blind eye to ones achievements,
then judge them at there moment of weakness.

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Gulnara
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Gulnara » October 23rd, 2011, 8:46 pm

If good and bad are subjective , then question only means :" Why anything happens to good people?" Because everything happens to bad people too, or rather because things happen to people, changes happen to people. Because life is full of events, changes, that is why. Because this world is made up of changes, it is its motto. Want to change? Welcome to our world.

-- Updated Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:53 pm to add the following --

Also, one might ask:" Why good people do bad things?" " Why bad people do good things?" Because there is no clear division between good and bad. Good and bad are orientational maxims, most of anything happens in between, in a mix. That is why there is also no hell and heaven. Hell and heaven are millennia long Santa-like fairytale for naive people.

Prof
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Prof » October 24th, 2011, 4:25 am

This isn't original with me..... [no need to say]....

Imagine all the people sharing all the world
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man.

You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one.
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Make this a goal. Work to make it happen. Less and less bad things will then happen to people, whether they are highly moral or only moral to a low degree.

Yes, elusive_thinker, this is a Philosophy Forum. Hence it is appropriate to make distinctions, to detect similarities and differences, to define one's terms. It gets us closer to understanding things scientifically (with more precision and clarity) and thus having a sounder comprehension of reality, and more dependable, and cumulative, knowledge.

And, yes, Gulnara, "good" and "bad" are partly subjective - when the theory is applied in life - and party objective - when the formulas and exact relationships of the theory are written on the blackboard, taught in a classroom, and seriously discussed by the builders of the theoretical framework of the new, advancing paradigms - the perspectives that have both profound depth and crystal clarity both at once.

To better understand what "good" might mean, see the first chapter of LIVING THE GOOD LIFE, PP. 4-7. Here is a link to it: wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/Living_ ... _Lifef.pdf
Also see pp. 19-20 of the UNIFIED THEORY OF ETHICS to see how this would be applied to an individual person.

To get a good grasp as to what "bad" may mean: if something has less-than-half of its good-making features [ - that is, its properties, and property-names (its meaning) - ] we tend to call it bad. {Those properties are determined by the name we put on the something, or the situation, and the meaning associated with that name (that word) - a meaning the word acquires when we learn the tongue containing that word ...say, for example, when we learn our native language.}

If it had half (of what it is supposed to have, in our picture of items of that sort), we would speak of it as "average", or "mediocre" or "so-so." If it had more than half, we would tend to call it "fair" or "pretty good." If all of them, we value it as "good" -- a good one of its kind. If it's a human being of which we speak, then "unique" is a more appropriate term, for this is a singular case, a one-of-a-kind. The conscious individual is 'better-than-good'; he or she is magnificent, a miracle-of-creation who can possibly grow up to be a creator - an innovator - a contributor to a better world ...one with a higher quality of life for all of us. Let us emphasize opportunity for all, the opportunity to release one's inner artist, one's talents, one's gifts. Let's focus on human need over corporate greed.

Comments, questions?
To learn more on ethical topics, check out these references:onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... amp;t=6097

Lost1
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Lost1 » October 24th, 2011, 8:24 am

Because good and bad no matter how subjective happen to all people. Infact if you could remove everything that is considered bad (just to you because attempting to remove all of it would leave nothing) over time you would redefine what was good and what was bad making your least good, in your all good world, your bad. Isn't it true that you can not know what bad is without good to compare it to?

If you gain knowledge from a bad experience that you could not have learned otherwise is the bad less?

Lost1

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Gulnara
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Gulnara » November 26th, 2011, 11:38 am

Bad things happen to bad people and good people. Also, good things happen to bad people, do they not? However, good people, after bad things happens to them, have greater chance of recovery, because for the reason of them being considered good people, their family, friends or community will be more willing to help them on a sticky spot. Thus such type of people who are by nature good but are bad happening prone, keep existing, having a sufficient survival chance due to their reputation in a community.
In cases when good people get killed: this is sobering realization that people can not be in control of everything, and random things do happen by blind chance.

-- Updated Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:49 pm to add the following --
Alexander17 wrote:I understand that everyone goes through trouble in their lives no matter how innocent or guilty they are, but why do horrible things happen to good people? To people who never did anything wrong? What are your thoughts?
I think things happen to people. There is no need to wonder why they happen to good people. It is just because good people are also people, they are affected by the same physical laws and chances like any other person ( 13% bad, 50 % bad, 90% bad, 75% good, 13% good). People are usually not good or bad, but mixed. There are no people who did not do something bad, because we all learn by doing mistakes. There are no people who did not do anything good, because we all strive to be good people or are prone to do something good even just by accident.

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Nikki angel 4 good
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Nikki angel 4 good » December 1st, 2018, 12:22 am

I often say everyone has a sad story that makes a happy drunk cry....Many say do-gooders get Crucified. Truth is key we learn to listen with thyn eyes. Windows to a soul speak volumes to the wise. The oppressed are blessed with divine interventio. Those who oppress the blessed are the depressed. The pen writes and with all your wit cannot erase but half a line.....
A rose to the living means so much more if given before than sumptuous wreaths to the dead.

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Hereandnow
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by Hereandnow » December 1st, 2018, 11:27 am

Amen to that Nikki angel 4 good! Beautiful thoughts there. The oppressed are blessed with divine intervention? Is this a defensible notion?

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ktz
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by ktz » December 1st, 2018, 2:27 pm

I think some other posters have given a decent view into the statistical side of things. Permit me to cover a Judeo-Christian spiritual interpretation:
Steel is the product of iron plus fire. Soil is rock plus heat and the crushing of glaciers. Linen is flax plus the water that cleans it, the comb that separates it, the flail that pounds it, and the shuttle that weaves it. In the same way, the development of human character requires a plus attached to it, for great character is made not through luxurious living but through suffering. And the world does not forget people of great character.
Streams in the Desert, pg 448, referencing Hebrews 2:10, Hebrews 12:6
You may have a heart of gold, but so does a hard-boiled egg.

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LuckyR
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Re: Why do bad things happen to good people?

Post by LuckyR » December 4th, 2018, 2:56 am

The OP supposes a correlation between a person's actions and the type of random events that they experience. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "random". Random events happen... randomly.

Thus the reason to act in what is called a "good" manner isn't to magically induce good outcomes, rather for it's own value.
"As usual... it depends."

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