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What is the reason for Human existence?

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Gordon975
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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by Gordon975 » June 22nd, 2018, 3:04 am

It is believed that in the simplest bacteria gene there are 130 KBP that is 130000 pairs of DNA these have to exist in a certain sequence for the bacteria to exist as a successful life form. Quite how many combinations within a bacteria gene of pairs of DNA would make a viable as a life form I can’t be sure, I would speculate it to be less than 10 %, based on this, the possibility that by chance a viable bacteria would form must be in the region of several billion to 1, a successfully created bacteria would then have to thrive in what would probably be very hostile conditions. I am not a geneticist or a mathematician skilled in the art of permutation, combination or chance I will have to leave that to others, but I would say that due to the complexity of even the simplest gene the creation of life is potentially a once in a universe occurrence, however life could exist every where within the universe, once started, if spread to potentially inhabitable worlds by intellectually evolved life forms such as the human one. Therefore my personal opinion for what its worth is that life exists in most places in the universe that contains liquid water but probably only at the bacteria stage of evolution.

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UniversalAlien
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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by UniversalAlien » February 8th, 2019, 7:36 am

Let me re-analyze the original question " What is the reason for Human existence?"

First I would like to ask whether Human existence, or any existence, requires reason :?:

Can existence exist with no reason?

Can you imagine an existent state not based upon reason?


I know there are some that believe that the universe and existence begins from almost nothing and then
evolves into a logical state with Man at the top of the food chain defining all its logic and meanings.

But you still must ask yourself - Where and when did the reason become manifest?
And could the universe have ever existed if there was no reason for it :?:

So here we are with numerous sciences, religions and philosophies to define the current world
- seems to me though, that without a primal reason backing the existent state, there would be
no existent state - Another words the reason for Human Existence, and for Existence itself
is REASON - at the primal level reason is the driving force of all existence :idea:

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LuckyR
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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by LuckyR » February 10th, 2019, 2:21 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 7:36 am
Let me re-analyze the original question " What is the reason for Human existence?"

First I would like to ask whether Human existence, or any existence, requires reason :?:

Can existence exist with no reason?

Can you imagine an existent state not based upon reason?


I know there are some that believe that the universe and existence begins from almost nothing and then
evolves into a logical state with Man at the top of the food chain defining all its logic and meanings.

But you still must ask yourself - Where and when did the reason become manifest?
And could the universe have ever existed if there was no reason for it :?:

So here we are with numerous sciences, religions and philosophies to define the current world
- seems to me though, that without a primal reason backing the existent state, there would be
no existent state - Another words the reason for Human Existence, and for Existence itself
is REASON - at the primal level reason is the driving force of all existence :idea:
Well, none of us were consulted before the universe existed to document the reason, therefore by definition if there's a reason (which is a pretty big leap) it is a post hoc rationalization of a "reason".

In addition some hear "reason", and think "cause", I assume both you and the OP mean: reason.
"As usual... it depends."

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UniversalAlien
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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by UniversalAlien » February 10th, 2019, 5:43 am

LuckyR wrote:
In addition some hear "reason", and think "cause", I assume both you and the OP mean: reason.
For the record I am the OP.

In the last couple of years I have become fascinated by the philosophical statements of Max Planck, Noble
Prize winner and one of the founders of Quantum Mechanics.

For example this is one of my favorites:

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck


The thing is though - How do you define consciousness? - That is one of the big issues on another post here
on this forum that has been going on for many years:

"Can a man-made computer become conscious?"
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19&start=3345

I don't believe there is a solid, irrefutable definition of consciousness that all would agree upon.

What do we really mean by consciousness? - You can find many meanings and interpretations.

But let's replace the word 'consciousness' in the Max Planck quote given above and see what happens.

"I regard Reason as fundamental, I regard all that exists as derivative from Reason. We cannot get
behind Reason. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates Reason."
- UniversalAlien


Of course you might say that Reason, like consciousness, is open to interpretation
- Still as a fundamental, it would seem to me that reason, and the ability to reason, is the fundamental
first - consciousness then might follow.

As far as cause goes, thiests might like my view - But let me be clear, I'm not postunaling a causal God
concept, even though my view allows the possibility - I'm just saying that unless we have reason
first - nothing can happen, nothing can follow.

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by sebam83 » March 28th, 2019, 2:34 pm

This is a very elementar question and i think everyone thought about it. I came to different answers in the past. Everyone is free to choose his purpose. The purpose of a human is to be human. I think it has to do something with the platonic idea of humans and what all humans share. Maybe it helps to see ourself as one species among others ( also animals) I thought our mission would be then to bring life in space ( i think here we have the advantage to the animals). I also have the a longlasting believe that love and truth are the two primariy concepts which should lead me on a deep level. But i am not sure if purpose an reason is the same. Do we need a reason? Is reason not similar to function. And robotic devices have functions. It then interferes with freedom. Why there are humans? Why is the universe? We are and the universe is. Is not that enough

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » April 3rd, 2019, 10:43 pm

The reason for human existence is what it has evolved to be, and from there what each of us make it to be, individually and perhaps also as the human collective. There's nothing more than that, and to assume or imagine that there is is simply anthropocentric fantasy.

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by UniversalAlien » April 6th, 2019, 4:39 am

Pelegrin_1 wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 10:43 pm
The reason for human existence is what it has evolved to be, and from there what each of us make it to be, individually and perhaps also as the human collective. There's nothing more than that, and to assume or imagine that there is is simply anthropocentric fantasy.
" The reason for human existence is what it has evolved to be........."


And just what has it evolved to be :?: And why :?:

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » April 6th, 2019, 10:35 pm

UniversalAlien wrote:
April 6th, 2019, 4:39 am
Pelegrin_1 wrote:
April 3rd, 2019, 10:43 pm
The reason for human existence is what it has evolved to be, and from there what each of us make it to be, individually and perhaps also as the human collective. There's nothing more than that, and to assume or imagine that there is is simply anthropocentric fantasy.
" The reason for human existence is what it has evolved to be........."

And just what has it evolved to be :?: And why :?:
That's up to each person's interpretation, I suppose. And to be clear, I mean... what each person's interpretation of what the reason has evolved to be, Not "what the reason for human existence is" or better, 'was', because there never 'was' any preordained reason. Just what we have evolved to make it to be.

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UniversalAlien
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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by UniversalAlien » May 24th, 2019, 4:07 am

Pelegrin_1 wrote:
April 6th, 2019, 10:35 pm
UniversalAlien wrote:
April 6th, 2019, 4:39 am


" The reason for human existence is what it has evolved to be........."

And just what has it evolved to be :?: And why :?:
That's up to each person's interpretation, I suppose. And to be clear, I mean... what each person's interpretation of what the reason has evolved to be, Not "what the reason for human existence is" or better, 'was', because there never 'was' any preordained reason. Just what we have evolved to make it to be.
Pelegrin wrote:

"......because there never 'was' any preordained reason......."

That 'may' be true - But can you prove it? - Can you prove that existence, Human or otherwise, is not based
upon reason - Either as a specific reason or as part of some design pattern possessed by the Universe?

I've done some research and found that even a few Atheists believe in Intelligent Design - For example
one might say all of Science is a type of Intelligent Design as it follows perceivable and logical rules that
rarely ever change.

So how can you know for sure if Man, even without the existence of a a creator, could still be here as part
of a higher purpose that science may reveal as it continues to study both Man and the Universe he is part of :?:




“The goal is nothing other than the coherence and completeness of the system not only in respect of all details, but also in respect of all physicists of all places, all times, all peoples, and all cultures.”
― Max Planck, The Dilemmas of an Upright Man: Max Planck and the Fortunes of German Science, with a New Afterword



“If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change”
― Max Planck

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by Greta » May 24th, 2019, 6:02 pm

The drives to grow and spread one's influence are found in microbes, in individual animals, in animal colonies, in ecosystems and in individual humans. Certainly those drives are obvious in the human groups that currently oppress us! Those drives are just as obvious in cities and countries.

Through humans, the Earth itself currently spreading its influence to other worlds. Every living grouping, no matter how small or large, is doing the same thing - developing inwards and pushing outwards. It's a funny old world.

Next question.

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by UniversalAlien » May 25th, 2019, 1:17 am

Greta wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 6:02 pm
The drives to grow and spread one's influence are found in microbes, in individual animals, in animal colonies, in ecosystems and in individual humans. Certainly those drives are obvious in the human groups that currently oppress us! Those drives are just as obvious in cities and countries.

Through humans, the Earth itself currently spreading its influence to other worlds. Every living grouping, no matter how small or large, is doing the same thing - developing inwards and pushing outwards. It's a funny old world.

Next question.
i agree and is reflective of what I was saying,

The next question might be - what is the source of this?

I know in debates I've gotten into with people, obviously knowledgeable people, about Evolution, many have the
strong opinion that it is source less - Don't want to venture a guess as to why it is occurring {except for survival of
the fittest} and often resent any concept that tries to give it meaning.

Its like they so dislike the concept of Intelligent Design so strongly because it is often used by religions
to justify a creator, and they especially dislike any concept that might even imply a creator is possible.

And yet from Scientific American in 1847:
And where must we look for this fountain but to the great store-house of nature — the innumerable and diversified objects there were presented to our view give evidence of infinite skill and intelligent design in their adaptation to each other and to the nature of man.
Oxford scholar F.C.S. Schiller wrote as early as 1897 that “it will not be possible to rule out the supposition that the process of Evolution may be guided by an intelligent design.”4 The term was also used by John Tyndale in 1874 in an address given to the British Association for the Advancement of Science.5 Prominent 19th-century scientists held similar views, including even Alfred Russel Wallace, the co-developer with Charles Darwin of the theory of evolution by natural selection. By the late nineteenth century, Wallace came to believe that natural selection acting on random variations could not explain a number of things in biology, especially the development of the human brain. He concluded that “a Higher Intelligence” guided the process.
Quotes source:
https://evolutionnews.org/2014/06/on_the_origin_o_5/


And the 'Reason for Human Existence' remains part of the conundrum.

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Greta
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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by Greta » May 26th, 2019, 1:25 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
May 25th, 2019, 1:17 am
Greta wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 6:02 pm
The drives to grow and spread one's influence are found in microbes, in individual animals, in animal colonies, in ecosystems and in individual humans. Certainly those drives are obvious in the human groups that currently oppress us! Those drives are just as obvious in cities and countries.

Through humans, the Earth itself currently spreading its influence to other worlds. Every living grouping, no matter how small or large, is doing the same thing - developing inwards and pushing outwards. It's a funny old world.

Next question.
i agree and is reflective of what I was saying,

The next question might be - what is the source of this?
Developing inwards and pushing outwards is all about persistence. Being ordered increases persistence, eg. all things being equal, a solid asteroid will last longer than a loose, unorganised collection of rocks of the same mass. Thus, anything that becomes ordered in such a way that it increases its persistence in reality will tend to be seen more often over time, especially as more ordered and persistent things again emerge.

With this dynamic, Over time one would expect ever more zones of high organisation amongst ever more chaotic surrounds.

UniversalAlien wrote:
May 25th, 2019, 1:17 am
I know in debates I've gotten into with people, obviously knowledgeable people, about Evolution, many have the strong opinion that it is source less - Don't want to venture a guess as to why it is occurring {except for survival of the fittest} and often resent any concept that tries to give it meaning.

Its like they so dislike the concept of Intelligent Design so strongly because it is often used by religions to justify a creator, and they especially dislike any concept that might even imply a creator is possible.
I might be one of them. ID is just creationism rebadged.

However, I agree with you that wondering about how and why is worthwhile.

For instance, I gave an answer above about the source of all this, but it still left open questions about the source of the stuff itself, in itself. Personally, I see the universe as a living entity that's in the process or maturing and organising itself. I wouldn't call it "God", though, because it has bugger all with the human-focused imaginings of the Middle Eastern Bronze Age.

God and ID are such a miserable and feeble anthropomorphic concepts compared with the grand reality. To find God, just look down and up, and in the mirror. Look anywhere. Our God is the Earth. It contains all of human intelligence, and technology, and the minds of all other species, and the order behind plants, microbes and geology. It contains all these things and more, more than we have ever imagined and are still to learn about. That's godly enough for me.

The living entity that is the cosmos, on the other hand, is far, far more again than the silly man with an attitude about female hominids in power, intimacy between hominids of the same sex and killing non-viable hominid foetuses. The processes of life are inevitable in the cosmic jungle, where only the persistent survive. Why they are inevitable is the tough one. Why do the laws of physics work the way they do? What is the significance of patterns?

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by detail » June 1st, 2019, 1:53 pm

Well the problem is , is there a unique answer for this question for everybody. The fact that a question could be answered by two different persons different but both are still correct although the question is the same should show up the problem. For example how old are you could be answered
by two different people differently although the question is the same question. The same argument is valid for the word reason, what is reason.
Should you know something in epsitemic logics or just believe something in doxastic logics or do you want an imperative like in ITL logic or deontic logics. This is all containing the word reason. The word reason , does it just mean a justification or a logical basis for the inference . The reason would be then the laws of physics and the beginning inertial condition of the universe. Is reason more and there should be a metaphysical and moral justification for the extreme impertinence for example of my existence , this is by far more difficult. I would like to see a discussion of setting the signature of commonterms of philosophy on the basis of extended modal logics like doxastic and epistemic logic, but nobody feels the same . Is there a reason for this ? Who knows ?

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Re: What is the reason for Human existence?

Post by Mark Moseley » June 17th, 2019, 11:48 am

Assumption: humans were created by some kind of conscious being ("God") for a reason
Assumption: "God" is "Love"
Assumption: The most loving action you can take is to create as much new recurring love as you can.

Conclusion: we're here to learn how to love each other. Maybe the Mormons are right that ultimately this means we need to become like "God" in that we will create creatures, and train them somehow to love each other, and then train them to take over from us, etc, etc, etc.

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