Is Causality Infinite?

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Hans-Werner Hammen
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
The "actual" truth is, forgive me, a symbol which does not make sense to me, since I am subscribed to the assertion that "truth is in the eye of the beholder"
Look, when you see the actual truth (crystal clear, for a very conspicuous example your own thunder thighs) and you symbolize this truth by "uglinesss" what will you do if I symbolize the exact same truth by "attractiveness" - in other words all that is actually-, is Factually "crystal clear" is the same template (your thunder thighs) the cause AT two very differentially symbolized truths (iow NOT crystal clear)

The (repeated) utteration of our disagreement suggests, that we are yet to agree on the symbol "to see".
As for me, all that I can see, is some-thing, we can measure a mass FROM/ABOUT.

As a scientist, I describe, what "to see" entails:
"To see" is a particular kind of communication between
an observer (some-thing, also called taker or receiver, on this particular occasion it is the eye) - and
a being-observed (some-thing, also called giver or source, for an example your thunder thighs)

The giver communicates with the taker, in that it is trans-ferring quanta (units) of its property -
(no-thing, called mass and also called energy) towards the taker.
If the taker is the eye, the mass gain is being processed in the brain in that a quantum of bright-ness, of color is momentarily fabricated)
Many quanta of brightness are tantamount to [again, no-thing called] a pattern. Several patterns are tantamount to a property which can be symbolized "ugliness" or "attractiveness"

You and I do NOT see the truth (brightness, pattern, ugliness, attractiveness)
You and I do NOT see the communication (the mass-transfer action symbolized as light, the quantum of this action called a Photon)
You and I DO see the giver, iow some-thing, which has our brain make up bright-ness, color, pattern (patterned-ness), uglin-ness, attractiveness and many other individual truths = subjectizations

In any case, the truth is imaginary, is, as such, an illusion, in that it is being fabricated with-IN the brain - whereas the brain "magically" - and very reliably - allocates the truth at the source of truth, iow at the giver, which giver is obviously outside the brain.

IF you really mean to see the truth (no-thing) so crystal clear as you assert, then please tell me about its color OMG...
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Hans-Werner Hammen
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 8:49 pm Even 'nothing' is some 'thing'
Accurately this assertion is at the very core of Presuppositional Apologetics and of the Transcendental argument, dear friend.
Whether you like or not!

No-thing (Reference, world2) is not some-thing (Referent, world1).
The detectable assertion (symbol, world3) OF no-thing, now THIS is some-thing (man-made Referent = symbol, man made fraction of world1 = world3) .
Some-thing is all that you can detect.
No-thing is all that your brain elicits, makes up, fabricates, FAKES -
FROM/ABOUT all that is detectable.
No-thing can also be called detected- or observed-NESS

the language (symbols) merely rei-FY no-thing.
An example of no-thing is the powerful QuadrUnity of the 4 big broad Zampanos.
another example is mass and its correlate, energy.
Whether you like or not,
mass, energy, space, time, as well as the powerful QuadrUnity of the 4 big broad Zampanos -
each is non-detectable
each is merely made up FROM/ABOUT the detect-able.

no-thing is imaginary-non-causal = epiphenomenal
Some-thing is detectable = causal at its detection.

Mass and energy are examples of no-thing.
Any measurement of mass and of energy is, contrary to a popular assertion NOT a detection of mass and of energy.
All that IS being detected, it is some-thing.
The declaration (assertion) OF no-thing FOR some-thing, is as naive as is the assertion, that the calories in a cake be somehow detectable - in other words be extractable as a substance. OMG!
evolution
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am
evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
The "actual" truth is, forgive me, a symbol which does not make sense to me, since I am subscribed to the assertion that "truth is in the eye of the beholder"
Which makes PERFECT SENSE, to 'me'.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am Look, when you see the actual truth (crystal clear, for a very conspicuous example your own thunder thighs) and you symbolize this truth by "uglinesss" what will you do if I symbolize the exact same truth by "attractiveness" -
But I NEVER see things in this perspective, as you do.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am in other words all that is actually-, is Factually "crystal clear" is the same template (your thunder thighs) the cause AT two very differentially symbolized truths (iow NOT crystal clear)
But I do NOT LOOK AT and SEE 'things' this way. For the very OBVIOUS reasons, which you are POINTING OUT and making CRYSTAL CLEAR here.

By the way, what is ALSO CRYSTAL CLEAR is that these 'things' are NOT thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am The (repeated) utteration of our disagreement suggests, that we are yet to agree on the symbol "to see".
But I AGREE that what 'you' are 'seeing' AND 'saying' is NOT thee ACTUAL Truth at all.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am As for me, all that I can see, is some-thing, we can measure a mass FROM/ABOUT.
Yes, I KNOW. You have informed 'us' of this quite a few times ALREADY.

And, what can NOT measured as mass FROM/ABOUT is no-thing, to 'you', correct?

If this is NOT correct, then what IS correct, to 'you'?
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am As a scientist, I describe, what "to see" entails:
"To see" is a particular kind of communication between
an observer (some-thing, also called taker or receiver, on this particular occasion it is the eye) - and
a being-observed (some-thing, also called giver or source, for an example your thunder thighs)
And what you are ACTUALLY and OBVIOUSLY NOT SEEING, is because of YOUR ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am The giver communicates with the taker, in that it is trans-ferring quanta (units) of its property -
(no-thing, called mass and also called energy) towards the taker.
If the taker is the eye, the mass gain is being processed in the brain in that a quantum of bright-ness, of color is momentarily fabricated)
Many quanta of brightness are tantamount to [again, no-thing called] a pattern. Several patterns are tantamount to a property which can be symbolized "ugliness" or "attractiveness"

You and I do NOT see the truth (brightness, pattern, ugliness, attractiveness)
But those 'things' are NOT necessarily thee ACTUAL Truth.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am You and I do NOT see the communication (the mass-transfer action symbolized as light, the quantum of this action called a Photon)
You and I DO see the giver, iow some-thing, which has our brain make up bright-ness, color, pattern (patterned-ness), uglin-ness, attractiveness and many other individual truths = subjectizations
LISTEN, 'you' can NOT ACCURATELY tell what I can and can NOT SEE.

You, however, are COMPLETELY FREE to tell 'us' what 'you' can and can NOT SEE.

And, if what 'you' want to call what 'you' SEE individually, or subjectively, as "truths", then so be it. But these, so called, "truths" ARE NOT, and I will repeat, ARE NOT thee actual Truth of things, OBVIOUSLY.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am In any case, the truth is imaginary, is, as such, an illusion, in that it is being fabricated with-IN the brain - whereas the brain "magically" - and very reliably - allocates the truth at the source of truth, iow at the giver, which giver is obviously outside the brain.
So, to 'you' the truth is imaginary, correct?
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am IF you really mean to see the truth (no-thing) so crystal clear as you assert, then please tell me about its color OMG...
What are 'you' ACTUALLY referring to here?

You OBVIOUSLY are NOT SEEING NOR even LISTENING and HEARING what I am WRITING and SAYING here.
evolution
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 4:41 am
evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 8:49 pm Even 'nothing' is some 'thing'
Accurately this assertion is at the very core of Presuppositional Apologetics and of the Transcendental argument, dear friend.
Whether you like or not!
I do NOT even CARE about this, and have absolutely NO Interest in even trying to understand this, let alone liking or not liking this.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am No-thing (Reference, world2) is not some-thing (Referent, world1).
The detectable assertion (symbol, world3) OF no-thing, now THIS is some-thing (man-made Referent = symbol, man made fraction of world1 = world3) .
Some-thing is all that you can detect.
No-thing is all that your brain elicits, makes up, fabricates, FAKES -
FROM/ABOUT all that is detectable.
No-thing can also be called detected- or observed-NESS
How many times do I have to TELL 'you'. All you are REALLY saying is 'that', which can be physically seen and felt, to 'you', is some-thing, and, 'that', which can NOT be seen and felt, with the physical body, to 'you', is no-thing?

LOOK, I UNDERSTAND that this is how 'things' ARE, to 'you'. And, this is of ABSOLUTELY NO concern to 'me'.

You are absolutely FREE to SEE and BELIEVE ANY 'thing' ANYWAY 'you' like.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am the language (symbols) merely rei-FY no-thing.
An example of no-thing is the powerful QuadrUnity of the 4 big broad Zampanos.
another example is mass and its correlate, energy.
Whether you like or not,
mass, energy, space, time, as well as the powerful QuadrUnity of the 4 big broad Zampanos -
each is non-detectable
each is merely made up FROM/ABOUT the detect-able.
LOL if those 'things' can NOT be detected by 'you', then what are those things, which can be detected, by 'you'?
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am no-thing is imaginary-non-causal = epiphenomenal
Some-thing is detectable = causal at its detection.
Does this have ABSOLUTELY ANY thing to do with IF causality is infinite or not?

If yes, then what is that EXACTLY?
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am Mass and energy are examples of no-thing.
Any measurement of mass and of energy is, contrary to a popular assertion NOT a detection of mass and of energy.
All that IS being detected, it is some-thing.


And, what is that 'thing' EXACTLY?
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am The declaration (assertion) OF no-thing FOR some-thing, is as naive as is the assertion, that the calories in a cake be somehow detectable - in other words be extractable as a substance. OMG!
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Hans-Werner Hammen
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 6th, 2021, 5:34 am
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 3:56 am no-thing is imaginary-non-causal = epiphenomenal
Some-thing is detectable = causal at its detection.
Does this have ABSOLUTELY ANY thing to do with IF causality is infinite or not?
If yes, then what is that EXACTLY?
Indeed!
Causality is not detectable.
Causality is no-thing also called awareness -
made up, fabricated,
FROM/ABOUT some-thing.
Called "causes" and "effects"
causes (some-thing) and effects (if some-thing) are detect-ABLE / observ-able.
The effect called "no-thing" is the detected-NESS the observed-NESS
FROM/ABOUT the observ-able, the detectable.

And I did mention it, already, as is blatantly obvious (sure is, not to you, dear friend)
@ January 4th, 2021, 11:24 am
via:
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 4th, 2021, 6:24 am Causality is being uttered, asserted, proclaimed. IOW the assertion OF causality DOES exist, blatantly obviously.

Causality does not exist.
Not per se, not as such, not it-self, not on its own, not in its own right, not in its very essence...

Causality is (as is any other abstract object such as space and time) no-thing made up FROM/ABOUT -
some-thing = all that DOES exist.

I DEEM the ASSERTION - OF - [the abstract object called] "causality" to be: Globally-, universally-, Infinitely-applying.

SURE IS! By "Inifinitely" I do not symbolize/assert "infinitesimally back" iow: I do not exclude uncaused-first-causes - these would, HAD they existed - be qualifying for "creatorZ" or "godZ" - the conversion of them "unkown "godZ" would have effectuated the universe as we DO know it. IOW: The universe could, if this assertion applies, be called "godz" or just "god" ie the converted version thereof. This assertion is tantamount to a (version of a) Pan-theistic proclamation.

As regards god or gods - did you realize that our Theist friends implore the immutability of their respective god?
All that can be safely deemed immutable, it is an abstract object. it can and it will not change for the simple yet surprising reason that it does not exist.

Kind regards from GERMANY
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Hans-Werner Hammen
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
So, what is the color of "thee actual truth?"
evolution
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 6:00 am
evolution wrote: January 6th, 2021, 5:34 am


Does this have ABSOLUTELY ANY thing to do with IF causality is infinite or not?
If yes, then what is that EXACTLY?
Indeed!
Causality is not detectable.
But what is caused from causality, itself, is.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 6:00 am Causality is no-thing also called awareness -
made up, fabricated,
FROM/ABOUT some-thing.
Called "causes" and "effects"
causes (some-thing) and effects (if some-thing) are detect-ABLE / observ-able.
The effect called "no-thing" is the detected-NESS the observed-NESS
FROM/ABOUT the observ-able, the detectable.
I suggest changing your usage of words or being prepared to explain each of them in far more detail, that is; If you Truly want "others" to understand 'you' better.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 6:00 am And I did mention it, already, as is blatantly obvious (sure is, not to you, dear friend)
@ January 4th, 2021, 11:24 am
via:
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 4th, 2021, 6:24 am Causality is being uttered, asserted, proclaimed. IOW the assertion OF causality DOES exist, blatantly obviously.

Causality does not exist.
Not per se, not as such, not it-self, not on its own, not in its own right, not in its very essence...

Causality is (as is any other abstract object such as space and time) no-thing made up FROM/ABOUT -
some-thing = all that DOES exist.

I DEEM the ASSERTION - OF - [the abstract object called] "causality" to be: Globally-, universally-, Infinitely-applying.

SURE IS! By "Inifinitely" I do not symbolize/assert "infinitesimally back" iow: I do not exclude uncaused-first-causes - these would, HAD they existed - be qualifying for "creatorZ" or "godZ" - the conversion of them "unkown "godZ" would have effectuated the universe as we DO know it. IOW: The universe could, if this assertion applies, be called "godz" or just "god" ie the converted version thereof. This assertion is tantamount to a (version of a) Pan-theistic proclamation.

As regards god or gods - did you realize that our Theist friends implore the immutability of their respective god?
All that can be safely deemed immutable, it is an abstract object. it can and it will not change for the simple yet surprising reason that it does not exist.

Kind regards from GERMANY
And what EXACTLY has ANY of this got to do with if causality is infinite or not?

By the way, what have 'you' concluded, is causality infinite or finite?
evolution
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 6:09 am
evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
So, what is the color of "thee actual truth?"
Who says there is even a color?

Does there 'have to be' a color, to 'you'?

If yes, then WHY?
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 6th, 2021, 7:59 am
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 6:09 am So, what is the color of "thee actual truth?"
Who says there is even a color?
Does there 'have to be' a color, to 'you'?
If yes, then WHY?
indeed, color is just one truth, iow is no-thing fabricated FROM/ABOUT some-thing.
so, you do not assert, not object-IZE ANY color FROM/ABOUT truth.

Sure is, it was you who asserted
evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
Can you describe the truth by any other no-thing than color?
What does crystal clear mean Do you see a crystal?
What do you see?! can you describe the shape, the geometry of the truth you are seeing so crystal-clear-ly?
what is the approximate distance of the truth towards your eye?
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
How do you know, that it is the truth you are seeing rather than some-thing other people would just call "some crystal"?
Or do you call a crystal "thee ACTUAL Truth" ?!
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:13 am
evolution wrote: January 6th, 2021, 7:59 am
Who says there is even a color?
Does there 'have to be' a color, to 'you'?
If yes, then WHY?
indeed, color is just one truth, iow is no-thing fabricated FROM/ABOUT some-thing.
"color is just one truth" has NO actual bearing on the question you asked 'me', which was;
" So, what is the color OF "thee actual truth"? "
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:13 am so, you do not assert, not object-IZE ANY color FROM/ABOUT truth.

Sure is, it was you who asserted
evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
Can you describe the truth by any other no-thing than color?
Yes.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:13 am What does crystal clear mean Do you see a crystal?
No.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:13 am What do you see?! can you describe the shape, the geometry of the truth you are seeing so crystal-clear-ly?
What I SEE is that 'Truth' can be in AGREEMENT with EVERY one.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:13 am what is the approximate distance of the truth towards your eye?
Truth is NOT necessarily in relation to the human eye AT ALL.
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:41 am
evolution wrote: January 5th, 2021, 9:26 pm SEEN is thee ACTUAL Truth and is also CRYSTAL CLEAR.
How do you know, that it is the truth you are seeing rather than some-thing other people would just call "some crystal"?
You REALLY do NEED to STOP ASSUMING ANY thing here.

For example, when I say SEEING, then this does NOT necessarily mean with the physical eyes AT ALL.
Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 6th, 2021, 8:13 am Or do you call a crystal "thee ACTUAL Truth" ?!
Until you STOP SEEING 'things' from YOUR ASSUMPTIONS here, then you will continue to NOT SEEING thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 6th, 2021, 7:24 pm Truth is NOT necessarily in relation to the human eye AT ALL.
I agree.
Truth is an imaginary inside-brain-effect.
Truth is "necessarily in relation" to a brain.
We are calling "seeing some-thing without eyes" a dream if not even a hallucination.
When we asked people what they saw, for an example during the influence of drugs or near death experiences,
They always referred to some-thing they saw.
For an example, they saw themselves outside their own body (OOBE, which can - also - be artificially elicited by the stimulation of a certain areal in the brain, in patients who are fully awake!)
We are yet to learn, what you saw or what you do see, all that you are symbolizing as, in the summary:
"the actual truth, to be seen crystal-clear, yet not necessarily with the eye"
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by evolution »

Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: January 7th, 2021, 12:55 am
evolution wrote: January 6th, 2021, 7:24 pm Truth is NOT necessarily in relation to the human eye AT ALL.
I agree.
Truth is an imaginary inside-brain-effect.
Truth is "necessarily in relation" to a brain.
We are calling "seeing some-thing without eyes" a dream if not even a hallucination.
When we asked people what they saw, for an example during the influence of drugs or near death experiences,
They always referred to some-thing they saw.
For an example, they saw themselves outside their own body (OOBE, which can - also - be artificially elicited by the stimulation of a certain areal in the brain, in patients who are fully awake!)
We are yet to learn, what you saw or what you do see, all that you are symbolizing as, in the summary:
"the actual truth, to be seen crystal-clear, yet not necessarily with the eye"
You are EXACTLY right, you are YET to LEARN.
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Re: Is Causality Infinite?

Post by Hans-Werner Hammen »

evolution wrote: January 7th, 2021, 3:28 am You are EXACTLY right, you are YET to LEARN.
With all respect, your response is [deemed by ME] to be a joke.
Nobody is laughing though...
All that we are learning from [fabricate knowledge=TRUTH FROM /ABOUT]
it is some-thing.
Referents and assertions (symbols, assertion OF knowledge = OF truth]
The assertion OF causality = OF a TRUTH is learned -
FROM/ABOUT some-thing caused by some-thing
WE do NOT learn FROM/ABOUT truth, as you desperately try to convey.
We DO learn FROM/ABOUT assertions Of truth.
Well, not everybody ;)
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If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021