Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about science?

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
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Geordie Ross
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Geordie Ross »

Xris wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

Who said it was wrong? I said using the accepted concept to explain this is illogical. How does a concept create engineering advantage?
The delayed double slit experiment claims the observer influences the outcome.
It doesn't "claim" the observer influences the outcome, it proves the observer influences the outcome.

Engineer wrote:
How can Physical Reality be "Objective" when one cannot observe any electromechanical system?
Reality is objective by definition... Objectivity means that something is real or true regardless of subjective opinions or biases.
The good life is one inspired by love, and guided by knowledge. - Bertrand Russell
Xris
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Xris »

Geordie Ross wrote: (Nested quote removed.)



(Nested quote removed.)


It doesn't "claim" the observer influences the outcome, it proves the observer influences the outcome.
It proves nothing. Using the accepted method it appears that way.Using Gaedes EM ropes indicates the observer is part of the experiment. It becomes logical.
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Geordie Ross
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Geordie Ross »

It's called the observer effect, it's already known that the observer becomes part of the system. How does Gaede explain superposition and wave function collapse?

Let me guess, there's no such thing as superposition or wave functions? Only ropes and a giant conspiracy?
The good life is one inspired by love, and guided by knowledge. - Bertrand Russell
Xris
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Xris »

Geordie Ross wrote:It's called the observer effect, it's already known that the observer becomes part of the system. How does Gaede explain superposition and wave function collapse?

Let me guess, there's no such thing as superposition or wave functions? Only ropes and a giant conspiracy?
Ropes but no conspiracy. It removes the illogical dual nature of light.The accepted method indicates the observer influences the outcome.Gaedes ropes indicates the observer becomes part of the experiment. Is that too subtle for you?
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Geordie Ross
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Geordie Ross »

Ffs, google the observer effect, it's already known that the observer becomes part of it, but why does that collapse the wave function? Why does the interference pattern stop?
The good life is one inspired by love, and guided by knowledge. - Bertrand Russell
Xris
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Xris »

Geordie Ross wrote:Ffs, google the observer effect, it's already known that the observer becomes part of it, but why does that collapse the wave function? Why does the interference pattern stop?
I thought you understood the theory behind these ropes?
Engineer0RQ1
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Engineer0RQ1 »

Xris

For me

Employing a concept to build functional systems that solve real problems ties that concept to Reality and validates it.

Logic, reason and faith alone can validate nothing. Experiences and actions validate everything. Why else would ?/God/s subject us to being part of a physical Reality.

DYBOtherwise?
Chris

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Xris
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Xris »

Engineer0RQ1 wrote:Xris

For me

Employing a concept to build functional systems that solve real problems ties that concept to Reality and validates it.

Logic, reason and faith alone can validate nothing. Experiences and actions validate everything. Why else would ?/God/s subject us to being part of a physical Reality.

DYBOtherwise?
So how does the accepted concept of EM radiation solve real problems? How does it relate to reality and validate the concept? I will maintain logic is essential.It is the unreasonable faith in this concept that I object to. I constantly hear that this concept has produced wonderful technical advances but up till now I have not had one example
Engineer0RQ1
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Engineer0RQ1 »

Xris

Because it can be used to model/explain the real world and make predictions. Why else would any kind of science be carried out? If you want examples read Alastair I.M. Rae Quantum Physics part of the beginners guides series.
Chris

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DarwinX
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by DarwinX »

Steve3007 wrote:
You are stating that observations are not in accordance with some kind of theory which you seem to be concerned about. (I think you called it "The Big Bang Theory", yes?). Regardless of any knowledge that anybody else may or may not have about it, in order to make that statement, you at least must be familiar with:

a. the observations.

b. the observations predicted by the theory.

Am I right so far? Please tell me if I'm not. If you're not familiar with (a) or (b) please tell me how your statement works.


You then stated the result of a particular observation. Namely:

Distant galaxies do not look measurably smaller now than they did 100 years ago.

All I'm asking you to do is to use your knowledge of the theory to tell me whether it predicts that those galaxies would in fact look measurably further away after 100 years. What difference in appearance does the theory predict? What difference, if any, is observed? I don't know the answers to these questions. It's not my theory. You must know the answers, because otherwise you would not have been able to make your statement. You have made a statement about a theory. I have not.

Can you see now that I'm not seeking to defend or attack anything, but merely asking you to explain an assertion that you have made about (a) some observations and (b) some kind of theory?
I have no theory. I am merely making the observation that there has been no visual or other evidence in any change in the appearance of the universe in the last 100 years. Therefore, the misconception is that the expanding universe theory must be incorrect. It is up to you to decide whether you wish to support the expanding universe theory by offering evidence or whether you wish not to support it by declining to provide evidence. So far, you have not provided any evidence, therefore, your case is unfulfilled and void of evidence to support it.

Please advise - (a) I support the expanding universe theory and will provide the evidence.

(b) I do not support the expanding universe theory and will not be supplying any evidence.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Beware! The devil wears the mask of a saint.
Engineer0RQ1
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Engineer0RQ1 »

DarwinX
I have no theory.
You are simply acting as a System/Reality tester then? :( You have no purpose or agenda of your own then? :shock: Why/What are you? :? :twisted: :evil: :bored:


IAYRWInterest.......

Rgds

-- Updated Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:52 am to add the following --
Geordie Ross wrote:Ffs, google the observer effect, it's already known that the observer becomes part of it, but why does that collapse the wave function? Why does the interference pattern stop?
? Because the load placed on the system by the detector changes the spin/orientation of ALL of the particles involved in the experimental system/universe (It's called Quantum Entanglement ) ?

WTW4U???
Chris

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DarwinX
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by DarwinX »

Engineer0RQ1 wrote:
You are simply acting as a System/Reality tester then? :( You have no purpose or agenda of your own then? :shock: Why/What are you? :? :twisted: :evil: :bored:
Do you have a problem with that? What is your agenda? :twisted: :evil: 8)
Last edited by DarwinX on November 10th, 2013, 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Beware! The devil wears the mask of a saint.
Fanman
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Fanman »

From what I am able to gather, science is filled with misconceptions. Being intelligent people, we can correct them together :D .
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
DarwinX
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by DarwinX »

Fanman wrote:From what I am able to gather, science is filled with misconceptions. Being intelligent people, we can correct them together :D .
We haven't done such a good job so far. The problem is with the together part which may involve politics, career, consensus and ego.

To get a science degree one has to accept a lot of nonsense and crap. This accepting of nonsense and crap can become a habit.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Beware! The devil wears the mask of a saint.
Steve3007
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Re: Is it appropriate to correct misconceptions about scienc

Post by Steve3007 »

DarwinX:
I am merely making the observation that there has been no visual or other evidence in any change in the appearance of the universe in the last 100 years. Therefore, the misconception is that the expanding universe theory must be incorrect.


What does this expanding universe theory predict would be the change in appearance of the universe in the past 100 years? I'll repeat one more time: In order to make the statement above with any confidence that it might be true, you must know the answer to this question.

You can simply tell me whether you know the answer to this question by stating "yes" or "no".
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