You can't curve space

[DarwinX]

If you substitute the word no one cares unless you can prove it for magic you get no one cares. End of the day it's your claim you disprove it all science works your half baked rantiing against the machine does not. No one gives out prizes for the plucky losers, get some knowledge get some science and the beat the **** to death. It deserves it, but don't come to me and expect me to care if you're just some crackpot with a grudge, you should know by now you have to play the game, sure the games unfair and often you roll the dice and you lose, science is sloppy biased and useless at times, but that's science, if you are right no on can stop you. Claiming you have solved anything without doing anything but post on a philosophy forum is weak. You have however cleared up one point of the internet, everyone thinks they are entitled to an opinion and of course everyone is, but your still a **** if it's just arm waving.

That's it! No one cares. Nobody wants to make waves. Nobody wants to be the odd one out. Everybody wants a nice smooth life with no worries, hassles or troubles. Just swallow all the bullsh*t that life throws at you and keep a low profile. That's how you survive in this world. William Wallace where are you?

[Calrid]

(Nested quote removed.)


That's it! No one cares. Nobody wants to make waves. Nobody wants to be the odd one out. Everybody wants a nice smooth life with no worries, hassles or troubles. Just swallow all the bullsh*t that life throws at you and keep a low profile. That's how you survive in this world. William Wallace where are you?

Go into middle management irl or become a mod on a forum if you don't want to make waves, if you care about science fight for all you are worth to be something other than a pleb. No offence to mods in particular no one, but you know what you are like, mostly apple polishers and corrupted because you seek power.

I think you are getting it now. Question everything always and everything because that is how we learn.

Nothing is true: everything is permitted.

This is Sparta!

Sorry wrong meme.

-- Updated December 28th, 2013, 8:03 pm to add the following --

(Nested quote removed.)



Is you substitute the word 'quantum' for the word 'magic' you will get a better idea of how science really works!! Science is mostly authoritarian nonsense which uses magic, smoke and mirror technology to fool the masses into thinking that they know something of importance, when in reality they know very little.

Definition of quantum - A term used by scientists when they haven't got a clue of what the hell is going on. It is often used to cover up their ignorance of science issues and also has the added benefit of making them sound knowledgeable on a subject.

Or I could substitute your opinion for ********, and hope you prove this wild conjecture. See that's how it works if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen, your opinion in science is worth nothing.

You can rage against he machine all you want and it deserves it hell thrives on it. But spouting opinions on some obscure website is nothing but a futile attempt to do nothing. If you really want to change science, do it. Really do it, because it needs thinkers and doers, not itinerant nobodies with an opinion and no real motivation to change anything. Attack science every brick, every wall it thrives on it. But by the same largesse be prepared to be attacked on your foundations too unless you can prove it.

[Xris]

Two things you need to do.One stop your abuse and two telll me how GPS proves gravity curves space. You have admitted gravity influences the passage of time so now tell me why you believe it proves empty space is curved by gravity?

[Calrid]

Two things you need to do.One stop your abuse and two telll me how GPS proves gravity curves space. You have admitted gravity influences the passage of time so now tell me why you believe it proves empty space is curved by gravity?

It doesn't you don't pay attention do you I am agnostic on spacial curvature as you should be if you had any clue about physics, and though hypocrite first remove the beam for your eye before you attempt to remove the mote from mine.

Let me refer you back over my posts. Read them again. Then ask me a sensible question, otherwise don't bother. Just because I don't know something doesn't mean the contrary viewpoint is correct. Any more than I am, for all I know it could be an ether, I doubt it but it's still very possible. The universe couldn't give a monkies what some bare ape thinks reality aught to be, hence quantum mechanics. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it what colour is it? thank you Monkey Island 4 for that joke.

You can answer that question it is highly relevant to QM interpretations. Hell there's a first time for everything. Einstein may have disproved luminiferous Aether , a sort of light wind, as I said but in later life he admitted that he could not disprove ether.

This doesn't stop every other physics pseudo-intellectual on the interweb thinking they can though, unfortunately.

[AB1OB]

You can create the appearance of curved space by placing a curved 3-dimensional object in it. The boundary of the adjacent space is curved.

Regarding gravity, each mass, that travels through time (exists), has a gravitational wave front.

It's the same thing either way, the space adjacent to a bowling ball is curved or the space adjacent to the gravitational wave front is curved.

Space is the relativity of energy. The energy contains the properties. If energy adjacent to space is curved, the space will be curved.

But you can not bend space and then have the bent space cause energy to bend.

[Xris]

So you believe space is curved by gravity but you can't prove it nor do wish to debate the details. Is that correct? I have read your posts but the abuse you constantly write clouds any inteligent response by you. I believe your real problem is not fully understanding that we do know the standard reasoning behind why cosmologists claim space is curved. We do understand the evidence presented. You do not have to educate us nor give us pertinent links. I do not believe an aether exists. I do not believe the evidence presented to prove space is curved stands argument. If you wish to defend the status quo, do it with respect and understand that science never makes conclusive choices.

[AB1OB]

So you believe space is curved by gravity …………

No. Space, adjacent to shaped energy, may appear curved. "Space" is a measurement, not an entity.

[Calrid]

You can create the appearance of curved space by placing a curved 3-dimensional object in it. The boundary of the adjacent space is curved.

Regarding gravity, each mass, that travels through time (exists), has a gravitational wave front.

It's the same thing either way, the space adjacent to a bowling ball is curved or the space adjacent to the gravitational wave front is curved.

Space is the relativity of energy. The energy contains the properties. If energy adjacent to space is curved, the space will be curved.

But you can not bend space and then have the bent space cause energy to bend.

This is true in fact, it's what makes ether unlikely but not impossible, which is the operative word. I give up on xris I can only assume he is trolling since he refuses to answer any of my questions, and seems stuck in a ask a pointless question loop. I think I'll put him on ignore. I don't really give a **** about insults, but I think people who are reading this and are not posting are more important even than the posters.

Let's be realistic if Einstein could not rule out either, neither should we. All evidence says there is a gradient but what that is and how exactly it has both and affect and an effect is currently unknown, what we know is that GR works because GPs Sattellites work and various other experimental evidence, beyond that we should remain agnostic on what exactly is causing the effect at least until a gravitational particle model can be resolved with QM; what that gradient is, is clearly not Euclidean but is for the time being unknown. GPS proves only that there could be ether but not luminiferous Aether, not that there is.

And to add what xris believes and what he knows are two very different things, he's making bold claims and doing nothing to substantiate them, if scientists say space is curved, it means absolutely nothing at this current time. It might be better to put it into an energetic cline framework, it might not the answer is we as yet do not know exactly how gravity works, so saying space bends seems expedient if not entirely 100% provable. As is said if there is something we don't know about at work, it is best to remain agnostic on the finer points of interpretations.

-- Updated December 29th, 2013, 10:59 am to add the following --

(Nested quote removed.)


No. Space, adjacent to shaped energy, may appear curved. "Space" is a measurement, not an entity.

Also true neither is time an entity but space is dependant on time, with applicable rotations around 90o not to go too far into differentials but dx/dt=i' where ' is an appropriate transform about the axis, and time is i which is either time itself and or x,y,z according to how you set up your integrals or differentials. Time is a concept, it is hard to see it as concrete without using space to infer and then by logic induce time. Hence space/time.

Let's think of the lurkers people, and keep it civil, if you insult me though I will insult you. I see no need to cater to your hypocrisies.

[Xris]

(Nested quote removed.)


No. Space, adjacent to shaped energy, may appear curved. "Space" is a measurement, not an entity.

I feel the concept is accepting the illogical consequences and is attempting to adjust itself. What exactly is this shaped energy and what are you measuring?

[King Solomon]

(Nested quote removed.)

I thought it would be obvious. EM ropes attached to every atom would create a tension that would increase by quantity. It is accepted by science that there is a direct relationship between EM and gravity.

1. What is holding these ropes together?

2.If a rope is already connected before the light wave is sent, then what is the rope made of?

3. If EM and gravity are connected, then show me the equation that ties them together.

1) The ropes are two threads twisted about each other (thus the observed orthogonality).

3) E = mc^2

2) From what I've been reading about rope theory: When an atom is broadcasting to all other atoms (Gaede's theory says that every atom is connected to all other atoms directly), the threads of the rope (EM and Mag) will either twist about each other at shorter intervals (high energy/"high frequency"/more links in rope) or the threads will untwist about each other at longer intervals (low energy/"long wavelength"/less links in rope). The "light wave" is the speed at which this rope twists itself, which is the same in all directions, regardless of the location of the receiving atom.

What I wonder from here is whether or not the "ROPE" connecting Atom 1 to Atom 2 is the same as the "ROPE" connecting Atom 2 to Atom 1.

Suppose that Atom 1 is emitting Gamma rays and Atom 2 is broadcasting Radio waves. Atom 1 broadcasts to Atom 2 (and every other atom in the universe) that it is undergoing a high energy event. Yet, Atom 2 is in a low energy radio environment. The Rope from Atom 1 to Atom 2 is very tightly winded, and the Rope from Atom 2 to Atom 1 is very loosely winded. So can the rope between them be the same rope?

The answer to this would dramatically alter the COUNT/NUMBER of ropes in the universe. Let n = number of atoms, if the rope between Atom A and Atom B is the same as the rope from Atom B to Atom A, then the count of ropes in the universe, [c]n, is equal to:

[c]n = (n - 1) + (n-2) + (n - 3) ... + (n - n) = 0 + 1 + 2 ... + n = (n^2 + n)/2

But if the rope from Atom A to Atom B is not the same rope from Atom B to Atom A, then we have:

[c]n = (n - 1) + (n - 2 + 1) + (n - 3 + 2) ... ( n - n + (n-1)) = n(n - 1) = n^2 - n

[King Solomon]

You are ignoring the fact that the experiment when observed becomes a particle.You even produced Gaedes experiment to prove this point. The anonomly the double slit experiment indicates can only be understod using Gaedes rope hypothesis.The only way cosmic body lensing can be explained is by applying EM ropes.

You have fallen under the magicians spell. Particles do not bend, only waves can bend. The photon is a fraud, as I have proven many times on other related posts. See my other post 'The photon is a fraud' for more information. Note - Cosmic body lensing can be more easily explained using aether theory.

Where does he fall under the magicians spell? Congrats, you have realized that the photon is a fraud. But a wave as an OBJECT is a fraud from the start. A "wave" is a concept, there is no physical OBJECT that is a wave. When a ripple is seen by our eyes traveling across water, is it the WAVE that moves (as an OBJECT) or a series of collisions between individual OBJECTS (water molecules)? The latter is the obvious answer.

Say we wanted to transmit a signal to a beacon on the moon. Light takes 1.3 seconds to reach the moon. Must I first calculate where the beacon will be 1.3 seconds in the future, in order to ensure that my signal doesn't "miss" the beacon when it arrives 1.3 seconds later? No. I just beam it at the moon, and the torsion twists the rope at the speed of light. Since the rope always exists between my emitter and my receiver, there is NO chance of the signal ever being lost.

Now, ponder this one:

The Earth orbits the sun where it is NOW, not where it was 8 minutes ago. This has been observed and tested many many times. In fact, if gravity "transmitted" at the incredibly SLOW speed of light, the distance between the earth and sun would double in 1,200 years. At the very minimum, gravity travels 2(10^8) times faster than light, it may even be instantaneous.

[Xris]

Me thinks DarwinX is a convert to EM ropes but is bit too proud to admit as much.

[Frank Aiello]

Space (or rather, spacetime) does indeed curve. Matter tells spacetime how to curve; spacetime tells matter how to move. In other words, the mass-energy distribution induces the spacetime curvature.

You may not like the fact that spacetime curves. It may not agree with your philosophical intuitions; but it does. We can do experiments that show that it does; for example, we know that light rays bend in the presence of strong gravitational fields, and we know that clocks slow down in strong gravitational fields. This has been experimentally confirmed, and there is no doubt about it.

You can then protest that four-dimensional spacetime is simply a mathematical model; an abstraction used to explain the physical phenomena. The only problem is, it's not. Gravitation is the manifestation of 4D spacetime curvature.

[Xris]

Space (or rather, spacetime) does indeed curve. Matter tells spacetime how to curve; spacetime tells matter how to move. In other words, the mass-energy distribution induces the spacetime curvature.

You may not like the fact that spacetime curves. It may not agree with your philosophical intuitions; but it does. We can do experiments that show that it does; for example, we know that light rays bend in the presence of strong gravitational fields, and we know that clocks slow down in strong gravitational fields. This has been experimentally confirmed, and there is no doubt about it.

You can then protest that four-dimensional spacetime is simply a mathematical model; an abstraction used to explain the physical phenomena. The only problem is, it's not. Gravitation is the manifestation of 4D spacetime curvature.

Have you followed this thread? Light appears to curve around objects of mass it does not conclusively prove space is curved. Large objects slows the passage of time it no way proves empty space is curved by gravitational influence.

[King Solomon]

we know that clocks slow down in strong gravitational fields. This has been experimentally confirmed, and there is no doubt about it.

I can show the opposite, that time slows down and even stops in low/zero gravity.

So I took my hourglass to the middle of intergalactic space, and the sand didn't move. According to my hourglass clock, time stopped...