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The Cure For Global Warming

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Halc
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Re: The Cure For Global Warming

Post by Halc » May 16th, 2018, 9:07 am

Barry Sears wrote:
May 16th, 2018, 1:10 am
I am not sure if you understand apsidal precession or orbital precession. Please excuse me if you do.
I said what it was just above. Apsidal precession is a procession of the direction of the major semi-axis [of an elliptical orbit]. There is a nice animation of it at the top of the wiki page on it.
If I was to try and explain it simply as I understand it, imagine a small ball on your kitchen bench representing the sun. Now place a hula hoop over this with the sun in the centre. Pick up one side of the hula hoop. This presents a change in the Earth's orbital path relative to the sun. As you lift the hula hoop the distance from Earth to the sun increases, this creates the cooling phase and as you drop the hula hoop the distance decreases and so this is the warming phase.
Your understanding is mistaken. A circular orbit has no major semi-axis and does not exhibit apsidal precession at all.
If you pick up one side of the hoop (without lowering the other side), the sun is no longer in the plane of the hoop. This is a violation of the most basic physics: F=MA, Newton's second law. 'A' (acceleration) points to the centre of the hoop, but 'F' (gravitational force) points a different direction, towards the sun. This cannot be. Yes, if Earth could do this, it would be further away on average the more the hoop was lifted, but this cannot happen.
The hoop can be tilted differently, but the sun would remain at the centre and the change would have no effect on orbital distance. Such a tilt is called orbital inclination, and precession of the axis of this tilt (not the amount of tilt itself) is called nodal precession, and has a very long period which I cannot find, but possibly longer than the life expectancy of the planet.

A change to the major semi-axis of an elliptical orbit should have no effect other than which constellations are in the night sky when the Earth is furthest from the sun. The eccentricity (the difference between the the nearest and furthest distance) does cycle, and seems to be the dominant driver of recent ice ages. A circular orbit has zero eccentricity. Venus has the most circular orbit of the planets, or Triton does if you consider all the moons.

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Barry Sears
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Re: The Cure For Global Warming

Post by Barry Sears » May 22nd, 2018, 5:44 am

Huh that's funny. What a plonker. I got so excited when I saw the visual display of this as the moving image on Wiki. This image can be viewed two ways. I first saw the three dimensional aspect to this and it is as I explained. Because this was a contemporary scientific theory and it produced the result of which I believe is required to produce the evolutionary changes for life on Earth, I failed to indulge deeper into the concept. I thank you for your time in pushing my ideas as it has developed my fuller comprehension of planetary motion theories.
Yes as one views this moving image simply, two dimensionally, your description of the motion becomes clear. Sorry for my small absence, many things have occupied my time. Writing on the subject does admit that this is a good model but it is still not necessarily defined as it is still only a theory. My investigation will continue and at the moment it seems to be the cosmic drag theory that when combined with the basic motions may produce a more accurate model, allowing for the shift in time that terrestrial evolution expresses.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: The Cure For Global Warming

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 22nd, 2018, 8:33 am

Theboombody wrote:
January 14th, 2014, 3:07 pm
I always wonder why people feel better technology is the solution to global warming when technology is causing global warming in the first place. I would think less technology would be better on the environment. Look at the Amish. Those guys are better environmentalists than anybody today, and they don't even try to be. They don't pile up huge mountains of litter or cause any pollution.

I think if we really care about the health of the planet, we'll forget gimmicks like carbon credits and solar power, and just be more like the Amish. True, we might live in less comfort and may not live as long, but we'll definitely be more likely to ensure the future health of the planet.
I'd rather be poked in the eye repeatedly with a blunt stick than be Amish.
If you want to go that way then you are perfectly free to dump your PC in the trash and join the farm.

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LuckyR
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Re: The Cure For Global Warming

Post by LuckyR » May 22nd, 2018, 4:36 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 8:33 am
Theboombody wrote:
January 14th, 2014, 3:07 pm
I always wonder why people feel better technology is the solution to global warming when technology is causing global warming in the first place. I would think less technology would be better on the environment. Look at the Amish. Those guys are better environmentalists than anybody today, and they don't even try to be. They don't pile up huge mountains of litter or cause any pollution.

I think if we really care about the health of the planet, we'll forget gimmicks like carbon credits and solar power, and just be more like the Amish. True, we might live in less comfort and may not live as long, but we'll definitely be more likely to ensure the future health of the planet.
I'd rather be poked in the eye repeatedly with a blunt stick than be Amish.
If you want to go that way then you are perfectly free to dump your PC in the trash and join the farm.
I don't disagree, though he does bring up the point that this is more of a social problem to convince those with and without decision making responsibility, to do the plan, as much as it is to come up with the plan.
"As usual... it depends."

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Halc
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Re: The Cure For Global Warming

Post by Halc » May 22nd, 2018, 8:44 pm

Barry Sears wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 5:44 am
Huh that's funny. What a plonker. I got so excited when I saw the visual display of this as the moving image on Wiki. This image can be viewed two ways. I first saw the three dimensional aspect to this and it is as I explained.
OK, I can see that too. Not hard to interpret the animation as a 3D lifting of the ring on one side, but only if they stop it soon enough, which they do.

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Halc
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Re: The Cure For Global Warming

Post by Halc » May 22nd, 2018, 8:51 pm

As for the Amish thing, they've arguably got more of a carbon footprint that some of the rest of us. Homes are heated by wood, which is renewable I guess, but puts out a lot more carbon per BTU than say natural gas. Meanwhile they take more acres of land per capita. If we all lived as the Amish, we'd all die from lack of space to do it. Of course that would solve the problem.

Good news is that climate trends is probably not a huge worry for us or for our descendants. If the Holocene extinction event doesn't wipe out everything humans find edible, we'll probably survive it, but technological civilization will probably fall well before the food goes extinct, and that fall will be the cure. New plants will flourish and (over long term) stabilize the carbon levels, but barring a nuclear winter, it will be a long time indeed before the ice ages return. Earth has been through this before and thrives each time.

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