Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Sy Borg »

Interestingly, the amount of carbon found on the Moon is casting doubt on the Theia hypothesis. Volatile carbons would have been boiled off in a collision of that scale so the giant impact hypothesis will need to be reviewed.

I wonder if those who think someone made the Moon understand just how immense it is? To create something in space so huge that its spherises under gravity would require unimaginable technology, not to mention amounts of energy and resources.
User avatar
Jing or Jang
Posts: 42
Joined: May 16th, 2020, 7:08 am

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Jing or Jang »

Theboombody wrote: February 26th, 2014, 2:09 pm Natural Things - trees, goats, rivers

Man-made (or extraterrestrial-made) things - chairs, jet engines,... the moon?

Now this sounds like nonsense, that the moon isn't a product of nature. But look at a solar eclipse. Ever notice how astoundingly precise the position of the sun, moon, and earth must be for the moon to cover the sun so perfectly so that only the corona is showing? What are the odds of that? I wonder if any of Jupiter's 67 moons ever eclipses the sun so precisely. Most eclipses on other planets are probably going to have the object blocking the sun be too small or too large for just the corona to show.

I can't fathom such precision being so random. If you take a spectrogram of two different objects, and they match exactly, that's not random. Neither is the exactness of the size of the moon blocking the sun random. It can't be. Someone or something intelligent put that moon up there on purpose with intent. Was it an alien being? A supernatural being? A bunch of human beings? I don't know. I don't know who would do it or why, but I just can't see it as being random. The odds of it being random are too small. I think the odds of Egyptians building the moon on Earth, shooting it into space, and leaving no trace of evidence behind is much greater than the odds of the moon's exact placement during eclipses being totally random.
There are only maybe 14 minutes each year of an eclipse and approximately 526,000 minutes each year when the moon is not eclipsed ... so what is this "precision" you speak of?
User avatar
Jing or Jang
Posts: 42
Joined: May 16th, 2020, 7:08 am

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Jing or Jang »

Theboombody wrote: February 26th, 2014, 7:54 pm..... Think of all the other places the moon could have formed. It could have formed 350 times nearer. It could have been 500 times smaller. Regardless of what numbers you throw in there, I think seeing a photo of a solar eclipse says more than the numbers alone can illustrate. I see intent. ....
It is a fair assumption that there have been more lost & destroyed planets and stars and meteors than you and I can count on our fingers and toes. The ones that we observe today are the only ones that survived so speculating on "350 times nearer" or "500 times smaller" is fruitless and irrelevant because there probably have been moons "350 times nearer" and "500 times smaller" but they have failed. And the reason they failed is very likely because they were 350 times nearer and/or 500 times smaller.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Isn't it true that the moon was farther away, a very long time ago, and is expected to get closer and closer until it eventually falls to Earth? The only coincidence would seem to be that we are currently at the point where the moon and the sun are the same size, when viewed from my back garden? 🤔
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Sy Borg »

Actually, P-C, at present scientists believe that the Moon was once very much closer to Earth and is gradually drifting away. The main hypothesis for the Moon's creation is the hypothesised Theia collision, where a dwarf planet was though to have hit Earth, first forming a debris ring, which coalesced into a nearby moon that has since gradually moved away into a wider orbit.

However, recently a Japanese study found a steady stream of carbon ions being emitted from the Moon. Yet huge collisions produce very high temperatures, enough to boil away chemicals known as "volatiles", which tend to vaporise at much lower temperatures. So that will cast doubt on the Theia hypothesis.
User avatar
Terrapin Station
Posts: 6227
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 3:00 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Bertrand Russell and WVO Quine
Location: NYC Man

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Greta wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 5:57 pm However, recently a Japanese study found a steady stream of carbon ions being emitted from the Moon. Yet huge collisions produce very high temperatures, enough to boil away chemicals known as "volatiles", which tend to vaporise at much lower temperatures. So that will cast doubt on the Theia hypothesis.
Since supposedly all of the matter in the universe was at extremely high temperatures at various times in the past--starting with the big bang, and then continuing with solar evolution, including supernovae, etc. there's something wrong with saying that carbon ions can't obtain posterior to matter being at a high temperature (or at least there's something wrong elsewhere in the standard picture).
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Sy Borg »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 3rd, 2020, 9:11 am
Greta wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 5:57 pm However, recently a Japanese study found a steady stream of carbon ions being emitted from the Moon. Yet huge collisions produce very high temperatures, enough to boil away chemicals known as "volatiles", which tend to vaporise at much lower temperatures. So that will cast doubt on the Theia hypothesis.
Since supposedly all of the matter in the universe was at extremely high temperatures at various times in the past--starting with the big bang, and then continuing with solar evolution, including supernovae, etc. there's something wrong with saying that carbon ions can't obtain posterior to matter being at a high temperature (or at least there's something wrong elsewhere in the standard picture).
I don't know enough to say. Here is a report on it: https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/2 ... urface.htm

Looking at the article, the author refers to "volatile carbon", so I'm guessing that it's only the ions, rather than compounds, that are expected to dissipate under high temperatures. "Volatile organic compounds (VOC) means any compound of carbon, excluding carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, carbonic acid, metallic carbides or carbonates and ammonium carbonate, which participates in atmospheric photochemical reactions, except those designated by EPA as having negligible photochemical reactivity". (Google)

If anyone else actually knows, by all means join in.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta wrote:Looking at the article, the author refers to "volatile carbon"...
In chemistry "volatility" is the ease with which a substance vapourizes. So highly volatile substances tend to exist as vapours (gases) for a wide range of temperatures and as liquids or solids for a relatively low range.

So the idea is that a body that was at a very high temperature in the past would be unlikely to contain volatile substances that pre-date that high temperature stage, because those substances would have vapourized and escaped to space, if the body's gravity isn't strong enough to hold on to them.

Obviously temperatures that obtained before any of this are irrelevant. Go back far enough and the whole Universe was too hot for any chemical substances at all to exist. That doesn't mean that they don't exist now. It just means that their existence as those chemical substances (as opposed to the building blocks of those chemical substances) doesn't pre-date that hot stage.

---

It's certainly interesting that the "Theia hypothesis" is in doubt. Another objection to it (expressed by a poster on here before) is based on the dynamics of the collision. That objection proposes that it would be dynamically impossible for material ejected by a collision to enter a stable orbit. This objection can be shown to be false using simulations. I've written some simple ones myself, out of curiosity.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Sy Borg »

I'd not heard of volatile carbon before, just plain old carbon. Whatever, that's the carbon that vaporises at high temps.

Yes, my understanding is that simulations have shown that much debris falls into orbit after collisions. The objects might be broken but the gravity well is still there, albeit less stable for a while. Still, if Theia is in doubt, that may be confusing. Then again, maybe the Earth and Moon are just a plain old binary like Pluto and Charon? Could they have formed from the same material from the protoplanetary disc and fallen into an orbit a long time ago?

It seems that pairs of relative peer objects are common in the universe. Certainly it's the case with stars. When our telescopy has advanced to the point of observing Earthlike planets without help from gravitational lensing, we will find out how common planetary binaries are.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta wrote:I'd not heard of volatile carbon before, just plain old carbon. Whatever, that's the carbon that vaporises at high temps.
Yes, carbon is an interesting element in that it can not only form very different types of molecular carbon, depending on the shapes in which carbon atoms plug together to make molecules, but be part of a huge variety of other types of molecules, containing other elements, too.

In the case of the volatile compounds made using carbon that we call "organic", the volatility is very useful to any creature with a sense of smell. (Or rather, the sense of smell evolved because of the existence of these volatile compounds.)
User avatar
Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD
Posts: 230
Joined: December 14th, 2023, 6:07 pm
Favorite Philosopher: The BUDDHA
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Was The Moon Artifically Created?

Post by Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD »

Theboombody wrote: February 26th, 2014, 2:09 pm Natural Things - trees, goats, rivers

Man-made (or extraterrestrial-made) things - chairs, jet engines,... the moon?

Now this sounds like nonsense, that the moon isn't a product of nature. But look at a solar eclipse. Ever notice how astoundingly precise the position of the sun, moon, and earth must be for the moon to cover the sun so perfectly so that only the corona is showing? What are the odds of that? I wonder if any of Jupiter's 67 moons ever eclipses the sun so precisely. Most eclipses on other planets are probably going to have the object blocking the sun be too small or too large for just the corona to show.

I can't fathom such precision being so random. If you take a spectrogram of two different objects, and they match exactly, that's not random. Neither is the exactness of the size of the moon blocking the sun random. It can't be. Someone or something intelligent put that moon up there on purpose with intent. Was it an alien being? A supernatural being? A bunch of human beings? I don't know. I don't know who would do it or why, but I just can't see it as being random. The odds of it being random are too small. I think the odds of Egyptians building the moon on Earth, shooting it into space, and leaving no trace of evidence behind is much greater than the odds of the moon's exact placement during eclipses being totally random.
There has been enough scientific evidence accumulated in support of the Moon having been manufactured by Aliens as their space Mother-ship, parked in Earth's orbit.

Where do you think all these UFOs go back to for the night ?


Dr. Bernardo Kastrup — Materialism is baloney!!! :D
Youtube. com/watch?v=FcPyTgLILqA

Dr. Jonathan Österman, Ph.D., ETH Zürich, Switzerland

Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Science”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021