Earth at the center of the Universe?

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Present awareness
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Present awareness »

Skakos wrote:Indeed. So why choose a different "center" for your scientific models?
There are many centres within the universe. There are centres of gravity, centres of balance etc. Throw a pebble into a pond, and you will see waves spread out from the centre point of entry.
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Skakos »

Present awareness wrote:
Skakos wrote:Indeed. So why choose a different "center" for your scientific models?
There are many centres within the universe. There are centres of gravity, centres of balance etc. Throw a pebble into a pond, and you will see waves spread out from the centre point of entry.
But move can be defined in relation to ANY center...
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Ruskin »

It's not like the Earth is in a fixed location and neither is the solar system as a whole or even the Milky Way. We're travelling at a fantastic speed we just really notice it.
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Skakos »

Ruskin wrote:It's not like the Earth is in a fixed location and neither is the solar system as a whole or even the Milky Way. We're travelling at a fantastic speed we just really notice it.
At a fantastic speed relative to... whatever we choose... 8)
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Ruskin »

Skakos wrote:
At a fantastic speed relative to... whatever we choose... 8)
Relative the stationary central point of whatever system of motion you're looking at. We don't know if there is a central point to the universe itself though I think will be something like that seeing as it would sense.
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Steve3007 »

Skakos:
But move can be defined in relation to ANY center...
Yes. So how would you decide which centre you're going to use?

I would make my decision based on what appears to be most useful to my current purposes.
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Ruskin »

Steve3007 wrote:
Yes. So how would you decide which centre you're going to use?
It's the bit in the middle isn't it?
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Steve3007 »

I can't argue with that!
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Skakos »

Steve3007 wrote:Skakos:
But move can be defined in relation to ANY center...
Yes. So how would you decide which centre you're going to use?

I would make my decision based on what appears to be most useful to my current purposes.
And what spot could be better and most useful than the spot you sit on? Why not choose you (i.e. Earth where you are to observe things) as the center? 8)
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Steve3007 »

Skakos:
And what spot could be better and most useful than the spot you sit on? Why not choose you (i.e. Earth where you are to observe things) as the center? 8)
That would not be me. That would be the Earth. But, yes. Good choice for very many purposes. But not for all. If I'm sitting on a train and doing something physicsy - juggling or playing catch with my travelling companion or something - I'll probably find the train to be a more useful fixed reference point. If I'm one of those NASA rovers on Mars I may choose Mars for the purpose. If I'm considering the movement of the Solar System through the galaxy I will probably choose the centre of mass of that system. (i.e. a point close to the Sun).

The fact that we spend our whole lives very close to a great big spherical object means that we very, very often use it as a fixed point of reference. But that doesn't mean there is some objective sense in which it is the most "correct" fixed point of reference. It is just usually the most convenient, for us.
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Skakos »

Steve3007 wrote:Skakos:
And what spot could be better and most useful than the spot you sit on? Why not choose you (i.e. Earth where you are to observe things) as the center? 8)
That would not be me. That would be the Earth. But, yes. Good choice for very many purposes. But not for all. If I'm sitting on a train and doing something physicsy - juggling or playing catch with my travelling companion or something - I'll probably find the train to be a more useful fixed reference point. If I'm one of those NASA rovers on Mars I may choose Mars for the purpose. If I'm considering the movement of the Solar System through the galaxy I will probably choose the centre of mass of that system. (i.e. a point close to the Sun).

The fact that we spend our whole lives very close to a great big spherical object means that we very, very often use it as a fixed point of reference. But that doesn't mean there is some objective sense in which it is the most "correct" fixed point of reference. It is just usually the most convenient, for us.
And still, we use something else as a reference point. Isn't that a bit weird? Don't you see the philosophical correlation in that "objective" choice?
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Steve3007
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Steve3007 »

Sorry, Skakos. I don't know what you mean. When you say "something else" do you mean something other than our own body? If not, what do you mean by that term?

What is so weird about using something else as a reference point? If I'm driving my car and I look out of the window and see "something else" moving past the window, like a tree or a house, I use that "something else" as a reference point for judging my velocity. Why is that weird?
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Avery
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Avery »

Both models are used by scientists for different purporses. The geocentric model is not generally more useful so it doesn't need to replace the heliocentric one. With time more people will know that neither is necessary correct.

Still, the conviction that "we are not unique" is the natural result of the developement in all fields of science (mostly biology). At this point I don't think that the centre of the solar system has anything to do with it. Back in time it did and the acceptance of the Copernicus' model had positive outcome, although that is also subjective.
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Val Valiant Five
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by Val Valiant Five »

So could Plato's theory of forms be used here to describe the "the perfect center"?

I could safely say that the Earth is the center of my universe at the moment. No matter how high I jump I just can't seem to leave it. :wink:
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Re: Earth at the center of the Universe?

Post by enegue »

Astronomers routinely place the Earth at the centre of the Universe.

Celestial Sphere


The position of those little dots of light on the sphere change only minutely over time, which means the motion of distant stars is remarkably unspectacular.

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