Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Scott asked:

"Then answer the question dark energy of what."

Answering a question with another question isn't good form Scott. Since I asked first, you're obliged to answer first and I'll answer once you get serious.

PhilX
The question is rhetorical if course. This and the others demonstrate the absurdity of this type of question, which is fallaciously loaded with prescribing location to categorical sets of intangibles.
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Thank you for your gracious words Misty and please don't take my mockery of theism personally. That's just my schtick and if it turns out I'm wrong I hope the big G has got a sense of humour.

I reckon the bible is a perfect proof that the meaning of words lies in the mind of the reader and never in the intent of the writer. We all see what we want to see and none of us is exempt from this, including me. My first hint that the bible was probably just a metaphor occurred in my early childhood when I wondered how they managed to get the kangaroos on board the ark. Herding kangaroos is no bargain.

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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Scott wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:Scott asked:

"Then answer the question dark energy of what."

Answering a question with another question isn't good form Scott. Since I asked first, you're obliged to answer first and I'll answer once you get serious.

PhilX
The question is rhetorical if course. This and the others demonstrate the absurdity of this type of question, which is fallaciously loaded with prescribing location to categorical sets of intangibles.
Of course you're not in the habit of asking rhetorical questions which provides an unconvincing, convenient excuse for you. Not good manners on your part.

PhilX
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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

My habits and manners are not of discussion. Please stay on topic and drop the ad hominem comments.

Do you have any on-topic response to the point--as illustrated by the many example questions--that questions of the type of the titular one are nonsensical because they prescribe location to categorical sets of intangibles?
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Spiral Out »

Misty wrote:I went out on youtube to listen to 'Judith' by A Perfect Circle. It has to be the most hideous, so called music, I have ever heard. The lyrics are disgusting.
They're only "disgusting" because you are unaware of the story and meaning behind the lyrics. You continue to judge books by their covers and that's what the song is about; not questioning things enough! Such as it is with this "dark matter" and "dark energy" nonsense!
Misty wrote:I now see where you get some of your ideas. It is a shame.
Which ideas would those be?
Misty wrote:My personal take on dark matter/energy is there is no proof that they exist, yet.
Of course there is no proof. But what is your personal opinion on the matter? There have been many strong opinions presented on the topic. Do you care to add one more?
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Scott wrote:My habits and manners are not of discussion. Please stay on topic and drop the ad hominem comments.

Do you have any on-topic response to the point--as illustrated by the many example questions--that questions of the type of the titular one are nonsensical because they prescribe location to categorical sets of intangibles?
That's better. You do care after all. So you're asking where do we find dark energy? The answer is quite simple. Dark energy is found...all over the universe. Now you're claiming you don't see it in your backyard (if you got one). That's right, you don't. That's because in (relatively) small areas such as the earth or our solar system it's undetectable. You have to get to get to the size of galaxies to detect it. I have that on good authority.

So now you're asking why the questions if I know the answers? Simple, because I'm really asking what dark energy (and dark matter) are composed of? So far no answers to this question, just speculation.

Well Scott, what are your speculations?

PhilX
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Theophane »

So what's your theist take on "dark matter" and "dark energy"? Are they the stuff of gods?
I don't know and don't particularly care. I accept the existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy only because scientists say with confidence that there are such things. People nowadays listen to scientists like they used to listen to priests.
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Theophane wrote: People nowadays listen to scientists like they used to listen to priests.
How very true. The absence of critical thinking is the curse of our times and a symptom of intellectual laziness. When our physicists offer us a model of the cosmos that makes no sense too many of us are willing to say "Oh, well. They know more about it than I do so we must live in a cosmos that makes no sense".

Well this is not true. They don't know more about it than you do and from many perspectives they know far less because of their confining ivory tower mentality. The comprehension of our universe is not the sole preserve of a handful of supergeeks who happen to be good at arithmetic. It is the birthright of us all and thus accessible to us all. Einstein said it and Wheeler said it and these have been the two greatest thinkers in 20th century physics. If it doesn't make sense it means it's WRONG.

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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Uriahharris »

I would not be able to answer the question, as my lack of high level mathematics and only base understanding of physics allows. I would bother to ask the question, what is dark matter and dark energy in relation to the universe as we know it. Would it be related to our thoughts and ideals. Can it be defined, and if not, then is it a contradictory definition? If it is contradictory, then by what means do they contradict to our universe?
-UriahHarris
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Spiral Out »

Misty wrote:I answered Spiral Outs question about what the gods think of dark energy and dark matter with "the bible does not mention either."
That was not the question. You had "answered" with:
Misty wrote:My personal take on dark matter/energy is there is no proof that they exist, yet. The bible does not mention either.
Is that really your personal take? Do you have any thoughts independent of what the bible says?

I had asked you:
Spiral Out wrote:So what's your theist take on "dark matter" and "dark energy"? Are they the stuff of gods?
I didn't ask you what the bible says about "dark matter/energy" since it's a scientific proposal and it's obvious that the bible cannot say anything about it. You had "answered" by simply stating facts. Do you have any opinions that the bible doesn't dictate to you?

So what is your opinion on "dark matter" and "dark energy"? (Opinions are independent of obvious facts.)

I'm just looking for your theist opinion on the subject. Do you have any rational or logical arguments either for or against the existence of "dark matter/energy" from a theist's perspective? (not what the bible says)
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Obvious Leo »

I think you may have asked Misty an unfair question, Spiral. Theists aren't allowed to do their own thinking. That's what the bible's for.

Regards Leo
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Misty »

Obvious Leo wrote:I think you may have asked Misty an unfair question, Spiral. Theists aren't allowed to do their own thinking. That's what the bible's for.

Regards Leo
What have I done to you Leo to deserve this rude post?

Misty

-- Updated Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:47 pm to add the following --
Spiral Out wrote:
Misty wrote:I went out on youtube to listen to 'Judith' by A Perfect Circle. It has to be the most hideous, so called music, I have ever heard. The lyrics are disgusting. (Nested quote removed.)
They're only "disgusting" because you are unaware of the story and meaning behind the lyrics. You continue to judge books by their covers and that's what the song is about; not questioning things enough! Such as it is with this "dark matter" and "dark energy" nonsense!
Spiral Out,

I listened to the entire song and there was no story or meaning other than just bashing God and those that believe. It was terrible music with terrible lyrics. You know it is not true that I don't question things. Do I have to be like you to have an opinion? I am reading a book on DE/DM/ and when I form my opinion, I will post.

Misty
Last edited by Misty on July 23rd, 2014, 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Obvious Leo
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Misty wrote: What have I done to you Leo to deserve this rude post?
I intended no offence, Misty, and bear you no ill-will whatsoever. On the contrary I enjoy reading your posts and will continue doing so. I apologise without reservation for my thoughtless remark as I momentarily forgot how sensitive theists are to satire. We atheists learn to grow thick skins because we are confronted daily with far more malicious attacks but I don't offer this as an excuse. I'm not a malicious bloke and I won't do it again.

Regards Leo
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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Misty »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Misty wrote: What have I done to you Leo to deserve this rude post?
I intended no offence, Misty, and bear you no ill-will whatsoever. On the contrary I enjoy reading your posts and will continue doing so. I apologise without reservation for my thoughtless remark as I momentarily forgot how sensitive theists are to satire. We atheists learn to grow thick skins because we are confronted daily with far more malicious attacks but I don't offer this as an excuse. I'm not a malicious bloke and I won't do it again.

Regards Leo
Thank you, Leo. This just struck me harder because of the struggle I have had with both atheists and religious people. I consider myself a person who does think for herself, it is dear to me because there was a time in my life when I was not able to do so. I did not mean to come across as over sensitive. I also have a great sense of humor. I know you are not malicious. Have a lovely day. Misty
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Re: Will we ever find dark matter and dark energy?

Post by Newme »

Spiral Out wrote:Every time you mention your god I tend to hear in my mind the lyrics to the song "Judith" by A Perfect Circle.
So... That's the kind of "hymns" you're chanting or meditating on. ;) The kind that put others down for believing in different subjective beliefs than the song writer's. Dogma is not limited to Theists.

Has anybody defined God yet, or is just the most dysfunctional definition of God being exclusively focused on with blinders to the countless others? If "god is love" then there's no debate. If god is one's "ultimate concern," then again all knowingly or unknowingly believe in and prioritize their own god (which most worship subconsciously). If God is objective truth, we are all clueless fools in any attempts to pin point exact principles and realities of God. IMO, God is a way of referring to love, ultimate concerns ("the kingdom of God is within you"), objective truth and much more, like other dimensions, that may be part of objective truth, but beyond imagination.

Maybe dark energy is the cosmic web that connects all energy... God..."e pluribus unum" (out of one many) and greater than the sum of its apparent parts, known not by direct observation but by evidence of influence.
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus
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