Time travel vs. "duplication"

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
Post Reply
User avatar
Whitedragon
Posts: 1100
Joined: November 14th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Time travel vs. "duplication"

Post by Whitedragon »

Do you really believe in time?

They say time is more about position and speed, hence, space-time. Now I’m no scientist, but please hear me out on this.

Let’s start simple. Let’s say you had a favourite mug, and it was lost or broken. Instead of mending it, let’s say you recreate it perfectly, right down to the smallest subatomic level. Isn’t this a form of time travel? The proper way? What would be the difference between the two mugs if they are EXACTLY the same? Only their position from where they’re placed, right?

Isn’t the same true for people? If a person was duplicated, (not a clone), but perfectly duplicated; you’re sitting at the same breakfast table with them, isn’t this a form of time travel, the only thing making them different is that they’re not sitting in the same chair than you. What will make them different in time is if they start living separate lives.

So Let’s take it a step further. If you could duplicate a solar system at a time where the second world war was still raging; I mean the planets, people, everything is exactly the same … would they make the same choices. When you are there wouldn’t bestriding this planet, automatically put you in the past? Or would the whole solar system be different, because the rest of space is different?

Trying not to talk about parallel universes, but then what is a parallel universe other than something which is spatially different from our universe?

Thus, the question is: isn’t it more practical to manipulate space, through, example duplication, than trying to travel somewhere unreachable? Time seems to me to gravitate more around composition of things: memory, atoms, direction, speed, than the conventional time concept. So why not replicate what was lost – and is that time travel?
We are a frozen spirit; our thoughts a cloud of droplets; different oceans and ages brood inside – where spirit sublimates. To some our words, an acid rain, to some it is too pure, to some infectious, to some a cure.
User avatar
Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 2116
Joined: May 25th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Re: Time travel vs. "duplication"

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Whitedragon wrote:Do you really believe in time?

They say time is more about position and speed, hence, space-time. Now I’m no scientist, but please hear me out on this.

Let’s start simple. Let’s say you had a favourite mug, and it was lost or broken. Instead of mending it, let’s say you recreate it perfectly, right down to the smallest subatomic level. Isn’t this a form of time travel? The proper way? What would be the difference between the two mugs if they are EXACTLY the same? Only their position from where they’re placed, right?

Isn’t the same true for people? If a person was duplicated, (not a clone), but perfectly duplicated; you’re sitting at the same breakfast table with them, isn’t this a form of time travel, the only thing making them different is that they’re not sitting in the same chair than you. What will make them different in time is if they start living separate lives.

So Let’s take it a step further. If you could duplicate a solar system at a time where the second world war was still raging; I mean the planets, people, everything is exactly the same … would they make the same choices. When you are there wouldn’t bestriding this planet, automatically put you in the past? Or would the whole solar system be different, because the rest of space is different?

Trying not to talk about parallel universes, but then what is a parallel universe other than something which is spatially different from our universe?

Thus, the question is: isn’t it more practical to manipulate space, through, example duplication, than trying to travel somewhere unreachable? Time seems to me to gravitate more around composition of things: memory, atoms, direction, speed, than the conventional time concept. So why not replicate what was lost – and is that time travel?
You may find this hard to believe. I was thinking along similar lines when I constructed my sales system (to the point where I traveled backwards in time, conceptually speaking). So I can understand where you're coming from. People's choices can change.

PhilX

-- Updated August 9th, 2014, 1:18 am to add the following --
Whitedragon wrote:Do you really believe in time?

They say time is more about position and speed, hence, space-time. Now I’m no scientist, but please hear me out on this.

Let’s start simple. Let’s say you had a favourite mug, and it was lost or broken. Instead of mending it, let’s say you recreate it perfectly, right down to the smallest subatomic level. Isn’t this a form of time travel? The proper way? What would be the difference between the two mugs if they are EXACTLY the same? Only their position from where they’re placed, right?

Isn’t the same true for people? If a person was duplicated, (not a clone), but perfectly duplicated; you’re sitting at the same breakfast table with them, isn’t this a form of time travel, the only thing making them different is that they’re not sitting in the same chair than you. What will make them different in time is if they start living separate lives.

So Let’s take it a step further. If you could duplicate a solar system at a time where the second world war was still raging; I mean the planets, people, everything is exactly the same … would they make the same choices. When you are there wouldn’t bestriding this planet, automatically put you in the past? Or would the whole solar system be different, because the rest of space is different?

Trying not to talk about parallel universes, but then what is a parallel universe other than something which is spatially different from our universe?

Thus, the question is: isn’t it more practical to manipulate space, through, example duplication, than trying to travel somewhere unreachable? Time seems to me to gravitate more around composition of things: memory, atoms, direction, speed, than the conventional time concept. So why not replicate what was lost – and is that time travel?
You may find this hard to believe. I was thinking along similar lines when I constructed my sales system (to the point where I traveled backwards in time, conceptually speaking). So I can understand where you're coming from. People's choices can change.

PhilX
User avatar
Whitedragon
Posts: 1100
Joined: November 14th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Re: Time travel vs. "duplication"

Post by Whitedragon »

Thanks for the post, Philx.
We are a frozen spirit; our thoughts a cloud of droplets; different oceans and ages brood inside – where spirit sublimates. To some our words, an acid rain, to some it is too pure, to some infectious, to some a cure.
User avatar
Atreyu
Posts: 1737
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Time travel vs. "duplication"

Post by Atreyu »

I definitely agree with you that your method is more practical than trying to travel somewhere unreachable. But it definitely wouldn't be the same thing as travelling forward or backward in time either.

Your question about a duplicate solar system is an interesting one. Would things play out the same way? My view is that the farther out from that point in time in which you began with the new solar system, the more differently things would be. For example, let's say that we duplicated our solar system in the year 1935. The farther from 1935 we go in that duplicated solar system the more differently things would probably be. So WW2, being not too far in the future, would play out much more similarly than say the Iraq War. It's even fairly possible that the Iraq War might not happen in the duplicated solar system, but WW2 would be a virtual certainty. Why? Because as time goes by more incidental variables would "pile up" and accumulate more change. If we go out to the year 10,000 AD then the duplicated solar system might be quite different than our own. Go out 10 seconds and the solar system will still be virtually the same as our own.

Another interesting question in comparing a duplicated solar system to our own, besides "small incidental" variables giving different futures, is the question of forces. Life on Earth for a man at time = 0 in the duplicated solar system would be just a bit different than our own. Why? Because in your example you didn't stipulate that the rest of the Universe was exactly the same. A different Milky Way, and a different whole Universe, would exert a certain set of different influences on our solar system, which would also produce a different future, and even a slightly different present. Influences from outside of the solar system also affect life on Earth, although obviously their effect is less direct than influences coming from within the solar system.
User avatar
Whitedragon
Posts: 1100
Joined: November 14th, 2012, 12:12 pm

Re: Time travel vs. "duplication"

Post by Whitedragon »

Atreyu wrote:I definitely agree with you that your method is more practical than trying to travel somewhere unreachable. But it definitely wouldn't be the same thing as travelling forward or backward in time either.

Your question about a duplicate solar system is an interesting one. Would things play out the same way? My view is that the farther out from that point in time in which you began with the new solar system, the more differently things would be. For example, let's say that we duplicated our solar system in the year 1935. The farther from 1935 we go in that duplicated solar system the more differently things would probably be. So WW2, being not too far in the future, would play out much more similarly than say the Iraq War. It's even fairly possible that the Iraq War might not happen in the duplicated solar system, but WW2 would be a virtual certainty. Why? Because as time goes by more incidental variables would "pile up" and accumulate more change. If we go out to the year 10,000 AD then the duplicated solar system might be quite different than our own. Go out 10 seconds and the solar system will still be virtually the same as our own.

Another interesting question in comparing a duplicated solar system to our own, besides "small incidental" variables giving different futures, is the question of forces. Life on Earth for a man at time = 0 in the duplicated solar system would be just a bit different than our own. Why? Because in your example you didn't stipulate that the rest of the Universe was exactly the same. A different Milky Way, and a different whole Universe, would exert a certain set of different influences on our solar system, which would also produce a different future, and even a slightly different present. Influences from outside of the solar system also affect life on Earth, although obviously their effect is less direct than influences coming from within the solar system.
I am very in sync with what you’re saying, especially the part of space being different, as you rightly say, which I forgot to include. But let’s say the whole universe is the same, would there be any changes then? Is there something inherent in us, that would make us play out our roles differently despite exact conditions of all?
We are a frozen spirit; our thoughts a cloud of droplets; different oceans and ages brood inside – where spirit sublimates. To some our words, an acid rain, to some it is too pure, to some infectious, to some a cure.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Science”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021