The Theory of Everything

[Khaled_Din]

Why would The Consciousness care about value/interestingness?

- imagine a Programmer who has no lack of creativity and computing resourses - certainly, then the most interesting thing to do is to organize a game to introduce/develop helpful processes in order to employ the best developed processes in the next greater game!

[Atla]

Why would The Consciousness care about value/interestingness?

- imagine a Programmer who has no lack of creativity and computing resourses - certainly, then the most interesting thing to do is to organize a game to introduce/develop helpful processes in order to employ the best developed processes in the next greater game!

Could The Consciousness / Programmer also exist in an Everettian branch of a higher-order multiverse? (infinite regress)

[Raymond]

The ultimate ToE is simple. All in our universe is based upon two massless matter fields interacting by 17 (8+8+1) gauge fields. The basic love and hate particles, the preons (and their antis) living on two 3d subspaces of 4d space. Which only look 3d and 4d. In fact the 3d is 6d with three large dimensions curled up to Planck circles, to accommodate the 7 (3+3+1) kinds of charge. All the games of love and war/hate stem from these. The gods figured it out pretty clever. They hadn't taken the homonid gods into consideration though.

[Sy Borg]

The ultimate ToE is simple. All in our universe is based upon two massless matter fields interacting by 17 (8+8+1) gauge fields. The basic love and hate particles, the preons (and their antis) living on two 3d subspaces of 4d space.

Which only look 3d and 4d. In fact the 3d is 6d with three large dimensions curled up to Planck circles, to accommodate the 7 (3+3+1) kinds of charge. All the games of love and war/hate stem from these. The gods figured it out pretty clever. They hadn't taken the homonid gods into consideration though.

Well, you got me looking up preons. The rest of what you wrote twisted my brain into a pretzel.

However, the LHC results so far have not proved supersymmetry, as expected, though some say that more power is needed. It's an interesting idea that there might be entities at a scale between quarks and Planck points.

[Raymond]

The ultimate ToE is simple. All in our universe is based upon two massless matter fields interacting by 17 (8+8+1) gauge fields. The basic love and hate particles, the preons (and their antis) living on two 3d subspaces of 4d space.

Which only look 3d and 4d. In fact the 3d is 6d with three large dimensions curled up to Planck circles, to accommodate the 7 (3+3+1) kinds of charge. All the games of love and war/hate stem from these. The gods figured it out pretty clever. They hadn't taken the homonid gods into consideration though.

Well, you got me looking up preons. The rest of what you wrote twisted my brain into a pretzel.

However, the LHC results so far have not proved supersymmetry, as expected, though some say that more power is needed. It's an interesting idea that there might be entities at a scale between quarks and Planck points.

Supersymmetry is super nonsense! Just an artificial connection between fermions and bosons. With math you can do a lot! Like unifying the weak and the EM force, which is nonsense too (though saying this on physics forums gets you banned!).

Anyhow, was nice talking to you. Im gonna sleep! For sure we speak later!

[Sy Borg]

The ultimate ToE is simple. All in our universe is based upon two massless matter fields interacting by 17 (8+8+1) gauge fields. The basic love and hate particles, the preons (and their antis) living on two 3d subspaces of 4d space.

Which only look 3d and 4d. In fact the 3d is 6d with three large dimensions curled up to Planck circles, to accommodate the 7 (3+3+1) kinds of charge. All the games of love and war/hate stem from these. The gods figured it out pretty clever. They hadn't taken the homonid gods into consideration though.

Well, you got me looking up preons. The rest of what you wrote twisted my brain into a pretzel.

However, the LHC results so far have not proved supersymmetry, as expected, though some say that more power is needed. It's an interesting idea that there might be entities at a scale between quarks and Planck points.

Supersymmetry is super nonsense! Just an artificial connection between fermions and bosons. With math you can do a lot! Like unifying the weak and the EM force, which is nonsense too (though saying this on physics forums gets you banned!).

Anyhow, was nice talking to you. Im gonna sleep! For sure we speak later! :)

In my experience there are three ways things can go for philosophy fans on physics forums. :

1) Scorned
2) Patronised
3) Banned
4) Ignored.

You need to be very lucky to receive a straightforward answer to a question without preaching or snarky attitude. These supposed icons of logic are anything but dispassionate and objective.

Most physics buffs have their B̶i̶b̶l̶e̶ orthodoxy and they won't budge one iota until a "high priest" (eminent physicist) gives them permission to think in other ways. The researchers themselves tend to retain an open mind but their adherents do not.

Physics has not solved all problems. People, if they at least respect the established knowledge base, should not be attacked for considering variant approaches to life's mysteries. Disagreeing is great, but disagreeing with a nasty attitude and without provocation - as tends to happen on physics boards to non-physicists - is immature and limiting.

[Atla]

In my experience there are three ways things can go for philosophy fans on physics forums. :

1) Scorned
2) Patronised
3) Banned
4) Ignored.

You need to be very lucky to receive a straightforward answer to a question without preaching or snarky attitude. These supposed icons of logic are anything but dispassionate and objective.

Most physics buffs have their B̶i̶b̶l̶e̶ orthodoxy and they won't budge one iota until a "high priest" (eminent physicist) gives them permission to think in other ways. The researchers themselves tend to retain an open mind but their adherents do not.

Physics has not solved all problems. People, if they at least respect the established knowledge base, should not be attacked for considering variant approaches to life's mysteries. Disagreeing is great, but disagreeing with a nasty attitude and without provocation - as tends to happen on physics boards to non-physicists - is immature and limiting.

I tried a physics forum once and got quickly banned. Was the only forum I got banned from.

I simply asked something about the information paradox, why is it that physicis never considers the possibility of universal entanglement which includes the quantum fluctuations (because it seems to me this would automatically solve the paradox). They started talking about everything except what I asked, and then I got banned for being crazy.

[Sy Borg]

In my experience there are three ways things can go for philosophy fans on physics forums. :

1) Scorned
2) Patronised
3) Banned
4) Ignored.

You need to be very lucky to receive a straightforward answer to a question without preaching or snarky attitude. These supposed icons of logic are anything but dispassionate and objective.

Most physics buffs have their B̶i̶b̶l̶e̶ orthodoxy and they won't budge one iota until a "high priest" (eminent physicist) gives them permission to think in other ways. The researchers themselves tend to retain an open mind but their adherents do not.

Physics has not solved all problems. People, if they at least respect the established knowledge base, should not be attacked for considering variant approaches to life's mysteries. Disagreeing is great, but disagreeing with a nasty attitude and without provocation - as tends to happen on physics boards to non-physicists - is immature and limiting.

I tried a physics forum once and got quickly banned. :) Was the only forum I got banned from.

I simply asked something about the information paradox, why is it that physicis never considers the possibility of universal entanglement which includes the quantum fluctuations (because it seems to me this would automatically solve the paradox). They started talking about everything except what I asked, and then I got banned for being crazy.

Ha! A string of victims. Too funny.

I wasn't banned but I might as well have been. I didn't return due to deliberate misunderstanding of my questions, patronising dismissal, dull, basic information designed for primary school and snarky meanness. Otherwise it was a terrific experience.

[Atla]

Ha! A string of victims. Too funny.

I wasn't banned but I might as well have been. I didn't return due to deliberate misunderstanding of my questions, patronising dismissal, dull, basic information designed for primary school and snarky meanness. Otherwise it was a terrific experience.

Yeah exactly. Most of them seemed too dogmatic and narrow-minded to even be able to consider alternative interpretations for the same facts. It's like stepping outside the dogma-speculation frightened them to death.

My other fun experience was on a general skeptic forum, where they do have a little philosophy section. Of course almost all these "skeptics" are eliminative materialists, without really understanding what any of that even means. Most of them keep little portraits of Daniel Dennett at their bedsides by the way.

So we tried to make them comprehend that consciousness exists. I've never seen people so vehemently fight against the idea that they aren't philosophical zombies. They would rather die than admit that they aren't philosophical zombies.

[Raymond]

Some pretty accurate description of reception on physics forum if one even diverges a bit from the standard mythology. I have been banned on virtually all of them. I managed to return every time, to no avail. Even on TPF I got banned. "Low quality contribution" is always the easy way out, while in fact the decision is irrational. And then afterwards the decision is of course rational, the reason being that you had a ban already. I managed to reenter the the physics stack exchange a 1000 times, and since the last time I haven't been banned yet (you gotta watch you words carefully, a fine but somehow silly excercise). But I got a week suspension... They haven't been able to give good arguments against preons though, nor have they managed to give a convincing explanation of the Higgs mechanism. Of course, the math works out fine, and that's all they gotta offer. Its not difficult to understand the math, but they derive all explanation power from it, while in fact it can deceive, if you can look through it. Like in the unification of EM and the weak force, the electroweak force, which covers up the real nature of what's happening. Or the Higgs mechanism, where mass is laid in by hand just as well, but by means of a gauge invariant way. While in fact mass comes to be differently. But try to tellem that... The answers I gave get downvoted or questions deleted. But its a nice anthropological endeavor!

[Sy Borg]

Siloing is potent. Each specialist field presses forward on its own track. Yet the coordination is missing.

That is why we can build space stations, skyscrapers and other extreme engineering projects and the internet, cure all manner of diseases and solve numerous mysteries - yet we do not know how to live sustainably, coordinate peacefully or create stable and equitable societies. At least of this disconnect is a failure to value the kinds of overviews that philosophical thought provides.

The irony is that many science pundits ignore emergence, unable to accept that their great knowledge of particular parts of a system does not necessarily infer understanding of the entire system.

[Raymond]

I agree that specialized knowledge is pretty abundant, not to mention that it's made visible in tandem. I consider science an art. An material expression of the knowledge involved. There are so many experiments performed, and these all can be seen as pieces of art, some even masterpieces. The confirmation of quarks, the photograph, the muon g2 experiment, the detection of gravity waves and polarization of the CMBR, Mössbauer effect, the Casimir effect, the Bohm-Aharonov effect, Bose-Einstein condensates, future observation of the JW telescope, etcetera. They are all expressions of knowledge about parts of the whole. As long as we remember they are pieces of art(ificial), far removed from the lives we live), there is nothing wrong.