Happy New Year! The January Philosophy Book of the Month is The Runaway Species. Discuss it now.
The February Philosophy Book of the Month is The Fourth Age by Byron Reese (Nominated by RJG.)
A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy

 Posts: 61
 Joined: March 27th, 2011, 8:03 am
A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
(1) Mainstream mathematics assures us there are several proofs to show that 0.999... = 1.
(2) Peano Arithmetic and Set Theory (as conjoined and exemplified, for example, in Cantor's Diagonal Argument) tell us that 0.999... is the largest real number which is less than 1.
(3) If 0.999... = 1, it would appear that parallel lines, and lines which intersect at infinity, are mathematically indistinguishable, with significant consequences for Euclidean geometry.
May I solicit your comments?

 Posts: 499
 Joined: November 15th, 2017, 1:59 am
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
This has been reported. Keep your personal problems... personal!Alan Masterman wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 7:31 amOn the offchance that this is still a serious philosophy forum, and hasn't been totally hijacked by Growthhormone and those silly enough to dignify his or her posts with a reply, I offer the following question.
Violation the ToS.
Is absurd!0.999... = 1.
Ultimately, it is no more than a desperate attempt by 'believers' to justify the obsolete belief in materialism/physicalism. It is meaningless, emotional, crap.
That also means that the notion/definition of a tangent must be dismissed as an impossibility.
It is pathetic.

 Posts: 367
 Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy

 Posts: 5676
 Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
 Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
 Location: UK
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
I think I may have replied to Growthhormone, but fortunately my posts aren't capable of dignifying anything.Alan Masterman wrote:...those silly enough to dignify his or her posts with a reply
I assume you mean an infinite number of 9's. I would have thought that mathematics says something more like "0.999... tends towards 1 as the number of 9's increases", which is a different thing. By increasing the number of 9's you can get arbitrarily close to 1, which means that for any given number of 9's it's always possible to add another.Alan Masterman wrote:Mainstream mathematics assures us there are several proofs to show that 0.999... = 1.
I've never known anybody to get angry about sums before. Great stuff.Namelesss wrote:Ultimately, it is no more than a desperate attempt by 'believers' to justify the obsolete belief in materialism/physicalism. It is meaningless, emotional, crap...
Yes. Sounds reasonable.Chili wrote:.999 approaches 1 as you add nines

 Posts: 499
 Joined: November 15th, 2017, 1:59 am
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
Glad you can appreciate it. *__
The emotion is because people identifying with their beliefs; materialism, in this case.
When a 'belief' feels threatened, so does the person.
That is why emotion, at some level, rather than rational/logical thought becomes involved...
Or, you've never seen, or been, someone working hard at the old blackboard and, at some point, feels frustration? Frustration is the feeling, anger the expression (or one expression).
(Throws chalk across room over sums!)

 Posts: 5676
 Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
 Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
 Location: UK
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
"0.999... = 1"
is
"no more than a desperate attempt by 'believers' to justify the obsolete belief in materialism/physicalism. It is meaningless, emotional, crap."
It's just somebody making a proposition about the nature of infinitesimals and limits.

 Posts: 499
 Joined: November 15th, 2017, 1:59 am
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
And now we have two Perspectives.Steve3007 wrote: ↑February 20th, 2018, 8:25 amOK. But I would hope you're at least aware of the absurdity of saying that the statement:
"0.999... = 1"
is
"no more than a desperate attempt by 'believers' to justify the obsolete belief in materialism/physicalism. It is meaningless, emotional, crap."
It's just somebody making a proposition about the nature of infinitesimals and limits.
Go play with someone else.

 Posts: 5676
 Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
 Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
 Location: UK
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
Namelesss, can you see the irony/hypocrisy in your saying this, given that so many of your own posts contain derisory, ad hominem, snarky or sarcastic comments against the people who are trying to talk with you?Namelesss wrote:This has been reported. Keep your personal problems... personal!
Violation the ToS.
Namelesss wrote:It is meaningless, emotional, crap.
(STFU is an acronym for "Shut the f**k up".)Namelesss wrote:Then feel free to STFU and listen.
etc.Namelesss wrote:Go play with someone else.
If you treat others with a little respect, and don't simply dismiss them with expletives, you may get some respect in return. If you don't, you probably won't. If a subject as innocuous as mathematics causes an emotional reaction in you, then, as you yourself have said to the original poster in this topic, this is your personal problem. Perhaps you should keep it to yourself?
 mathman
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 1
 Joined: March 2nd, 2018, 10:58 pm
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy

 Posts: 5676
 Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
 Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
 Location: UK
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
http://people.sju.edu/~pklingsb/limitthy.pdf
 Atreyu
 Posts: 1737
 Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
 Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
 Location: Orlando, FL
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
One way he proved it was by multiplying each side of the equation '.3333...= 1/3' by 3.
Right?

 Posts: 35
 Joined: April 30th, 2018, 11:37 pm
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
Unfortunately, modern physics since the turn of the century has mistakenly confused infinity as a mathematical quantity. Einstein’s general theory of relativity is derived from this type of mathemagics. Steven Hawking would speak of “near infinite temperatures” when explaining the Big Bang. So, how close to infinity does one have to get to be “near” it? Would this be infinity minus 100, 1,000, 1 billion degrees? Just plain silly in my opinion.
Most theoretical math in physics these days is mathematical philosophy rather than mathematics. Mathematics is for making testable predictions, not for philosophizing about black holes that nobody can create experiments around (and no BoseEinstein condensates, please). Black holes fall within the discipline of mathemagics. It’s how clever physicists or theoretical mathematicians fool the general public and “find” Higgs Bosons for a mere $15B!
So, according to mathematical philosophy, or metaphysics, YES, your infinite 0.9999... equals exactly one. However, I would not try to cheat the stock market with such mathematical trickery.
Cheers
 Jacqueline Sheehan
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 10
 Joined: July 28th, 2017, 1:31 pm
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
There are many ways to prove that 0.999... = 1,
Infinite series, algebra arguments, etc.
 Halc
 Posts: 285
 Joined: March 17th, 2018, 9:47 pm
Re: A Genuine Question In Mathematical Philosophy
Unclear how genuine your interest is in any of this. You've not posted a single response since opening this topic.Alan Masterman wrote: ↑February 15th, 2018, 7:31 am(1) Mainstream mathematics assures us there are several proofs to show that 0.999... = 1.
From what I've read by those that are more experts in this subject than I, this issue was unresolved for some time, and certain fundamental axioms had to be assumed for them to say these were equal. If different axioms are assumed, they are not equal. But mainstream mathematics runs under the former axioms. The other axioms are not wrong because of this. They're just not as mainstream.
This seems contradictory, but maybe I'm wrong. This seems to imply that .999... is unequal to 1, but the average between these two unequal numbers does not lie between them, or if it does, then .999... is not the largest real number less than 1. How is that not a contradiction?(2) Peano Arithmetic and Set Theory (as conjoined and exemplified, for example, in Cantor's Diagonal Argument) tell us that 0.999... is the largest real number which is less than 1.
What would these consequences be? Indistinguishable doesn't mean there is actually a point of intersection since infinity isn't a specific number, else they'd cross there and grow apart at points beyond infinity.(3) If 0.999... = 1, it would appear that parallel lines, and lines which intersect at infinity, are mathematically indistinguishable, with significant consequences for Euclidean geometry.
A few random comments:
True, but .999... is not the same as a series with a limit. It is a number with no more 9's to 'keep adding', and numbers don't approach anything.
This is begging and thus an invalid proof. If 0.999... is not equal to 1, then 0.333... is not equal to 1/3. So one must assume the conclusion to prove the conclusion.
 Intellectual_Savnot
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 18
 Joined: November 26th, 2018, 11:07 pm