Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

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creation
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by creation »

Terrapin Station wrote: February 4th, 2020, 11:18 am
creation wrote: February 4th, 2020, 3:33 am All of that has to do with the comment of yours that I responded to.
My comment was about this simple bit of logic:

If we say that x is nothing other than F, then we're contradicting ourselves if right afterwards we say that x is (also) G, where G isn't identical to F.
Well I have NEVER said nor done this here, unless you will point out and show specifically where I have said or done this here, so, until then, your comment has nothing to do to me.

But if you and others say things like that, then okay.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by Terrapin Station »

creation wrote: February 6th, 2020, 2:12 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: February 4th, 2020, 11:18 am

My comment was about this simple bit of logic:

If we say that x is nothing other than F, then we're contradicting ourselves if right afterwards we say that x is (also) G, where G isn't identical to F.
Well I have NEVER said nor done this here, unless you will point out and show specifically where I have said or done this here, so, until then, your comment has nothing to do to me.

But if you and others say things like that, then okay.
I quoted this earlier: "So now there does not appear to be any disagreement that 'time' is nothing other than a word, and as such just an abstract concept, and that the word 'time' is just describing, or quantifying, the actual measurements taken with respect to the change and movement of the position of the sun relative to the earth, so then let us continue on looking at these experiments and observations that have led people to see things as they are now, when this is written."

So time is nothing other than a word, an abstract concept, and then you said that time refers to the actual measurements.
creation
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by creation »

Terrapin Station wrote: February 6th, 2020, 4:44 pm
creation wrote: February 6th, 2020, 2:12 pm

Well I have NEVER said nor done this here, unless you will point out and show specifically where I have said or done this here, so, until then, your comment has nothing to do to me.

But if you and others say things like that, then okay.
I quoted this earlier: "So now there does not appear to be any disagreement that 'time' is nothing other than a word, and as such just an abstract concept, and that the word 'time' is just describing, or quantifying, the actual measurements taken with respect to the change and movement of the position of the sun relative to the earth, so then let us continue on looking at these experiments and observations that have led people to see things as they are now, when this is written."

So time is nothing other than a word, an abstract concept, and then you said that time refers to the actual measurements.
Obviously I did not make myself clear enough, to you.

I did actually use the words: 'the word time refers to the actual measurements ...', which you purposely, or unintentionally, neglected to add here.

By you just not adding those two words; the and word, then what I actually said and meant can be so easily twisted, distorted, and/or just misinterpreted so quickly and so very easily.

Imagine if you copied my words exactly how I wrote them down here?

Would your simple logic; If we say that x is nothing other than F, then we're contradicting ourselves if right afterwards we say that x is (also) G, where G isn't identical to F, still be the same.

See, I did not say x is nothing other F and x is (also) G as you are trying to propose I did here.

Let us look at what I actually did say and meant: I said x is nothing other than F and that the word x refers to G.

See the words describing and quantifying do not refer to the 'is' word. These two words refer to the 'refer' word. So, my use of the two words 'the word' were in relation to the word 'time' and what that word 'time' refers to and not what that word 'time' is. To me, the word 'time' is just a word, in concept, or thought, only. The word 'time' also refers to some thing else. The word 'time' is not is some thing else.

So, your simple logic, as I said, has nothing to do with what I actually said, and meant.

Do you now better understand?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by Terrapin Station »

creation wrote: February 7th, 2020, 6:21 am Obviously I did not make myself clear enough, to you.

I did actually use the words: 'the word time refers to the actual measurements ...', which you purposely, or unintentionally, neglected to add here.
So on your view, the referent of a word is never what the word picks out?

In other words, the thing we feed and take outside for a walk, etc. isn't a dog, even though that's the referent of "dog"?

Or the thing you're typing on to communicate with me here isn't a computer keyboard, even though that's the referent of "computer keyboard"?
creation
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by creation »

Terrapin Station wrote: February 7th, 2020, 8:56 am
creation wrote: February 7th, 2020, 6:21 am Obviously I did not make myself clear enough, to you.

I did actually use the words: 'the word time refers to the actual measurements ...', which you purposely, or unintentionally, neglected to add here.
So on your view, the referent of a word is never what the word picks out?

In other words, the thing we feed and take outside for a walk, etc. isn't a dog, even though that's the referent of "dog"?

You can call 'it' whatever you like.

Or the thing you're typing on to communicate with me here isn't a computer keyboard, even though that's the referent of "computer keyboard"?
Like everything else, it all depends on what we agree on.

If we agree that 'thing' is a dog or whether we agree on that the word 'dog' just refers to that 'thing' there on the end of a leash is open for discussion. What do you say?

Just like if we agree that there is an actual 'thing' as 'time' itself or whether the word 'time' just refers to some 'thing' is also open for discussion.

What we agree on, or disagree on, then influences how the rest of the discussion commences and proceeds.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by Terrapin Station »

creation wrote: February 7th, 2020, 7:30 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: February 7th, 2020, 8:56 am

So on your view, the referent of a word is never what the word picks out?

In other words, the thing we feed and take outside for a walk, etc. isn't a dog, even though that's the referent of "dog"?

You can call 'it' whatever you like.

Or the thing you're typing on to communicate with me here isn't a computer keyboard, even though that's the referent of "computer keyboard"?
Like everything else, it all depends on what we agree on.

If we agree that 'thing' is a dog or whether we agree on that the word 'dog' just refers to that 'thing' there on the end of a leash is open for discussion. What do you say?

Just like if we agree that there is an actual 'thing' as 'time' itself or whether the word 'time' just refers to some 'thing' is also open for discussion.

What we agree on, or disagree on, then influences how the rest of the discussion commences and proceeds.
If we agree that the thing in question is a dog, then "dog" isn't just a word, it's also the referent in question. The referent isn't a word, it's a dog. Words don't fetch sticks but dogs do.

It's interesting that so many philosophical confusions rest on simple use/mention confusions.
creation
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by creation »

Terrapin Station wrote: February 8th, 2020, 6:33 am
creation wrote: February 7th, 2020, 7:30 pm

Like everything else, it all depends on what we agree on.

If we agree that 'thing' is a dog or whether we agree on that the word 'dog' just refers to that 'thing' there on the end of a leash is open for discussion. What do you say?

Just like if we agree that there is an actual 'thing' as 'time' itself or whether the word 'time' just refers to some 'thing' is also open for discussion.

What we agree on, or disagree on, then influences how the rest of the discussion commences and proceeds.
If we agree that the thing in question is a dog, then "dog" isn't just a word, it's also the referent in question. The referent isn't a word, it's a dog. Words don't fetch sticks but dogs do.
That is fine. If we want to agree on this, then that is great.

But not just dogs fetch sticks and are on ends of leashes.

See, there are other ways to look at this as well as the one you are showing here.

As I said, it all depends on what we agree on. This agreeing is where understanding lays.
Terrapin Station wrote: February 8th, 2020, 6:33 am It's interesting that so many philosophical confusions rest on simple use/mention confusions.
This is just what has been happening for thousands of years now.

Confusions lays on and in the misunderstanding of the meanings and definition we have and use for the words we use and convey to each other, and even use and convey to our own selves.

It is only when I point where confusion rests, and comes from, like I am now with the help from others, that this can be better seen, and better understood.
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Re: Can all of physics be traced back to common sense?

Post by Dr Jonathan Osterman PhD »

Steve3007 wrote: January 24th, 2020, 9:17 am Like any subject, the ideas in physics are cumulative. i.e. to understand each part you have to have some understanding of the parts on which it was built. It purports to describe and predict the patterns in larger and larger subsets of all possible observations. If we pick a starting point of 400 years ago, during the time of Galileo, we can, in principle, follow the arguments through to the relatively modern fields of QM and SR/GR, and decide whether we consider the arguments to be valid. We can personally perform the earlier experiments. To perform later experiments becomes increasingly difficult. Galileo dropped objects off buildings. We can do that. The particle accelerator at CERN accelerates subatomic particles to near light speed. We can't do that.

Given what we can and can't do, is it possible, in principle, using only our personal experiences (experiments that we can personally perform) and our ability to follow logical arguments (written in mathematical language), to find out whether any or all of the predictions of any physical theory are valid? If we can, is it right to refer to this process as "studying physics"?

If we can't, is modern physics the magical thinking of a bunch of mathematics obsessed poindexters?

Unfortunately, only some physics can be traced back to common sense.

The rest of physics has been traced back
to the special and the general relativity theories. :cry:


Dr. Bernardo Kastrup — Materialism is baloney!!! :D
Youtube. com/watch?v=FcPyTgLILqA

Dr. Jonathan Österman, Ph.D., ETH Zürich, Switzerland

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