Playing with mathematical conventions and axioms

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
Post Reply
User avatar
SubatomicAl1en
New Trial Member
Posts: 15
Joined: January 6th, 2020, 9:08 am

Playing with mathematical conventions and axioms

Post by SubatomicAl1en »

Let's say that I am a time traveller, and I travel all the way back to when civilization started. I start teaching everyone 1 = 2, so everyone starts developing math theories that are based on the assumption of 1 = 2. Will the answers still be "right"? Will every mathematical equation like Maxwells equation and Schrodingers equation just be written in a different way:? Or will there be actual different equations and laws of nature?
What I'm saying is, is there a direct correspondence between nature and our conventions and assumed axioms?
User avatar
h_k_s
Posts: 1243
Joined: November 25th, 2018, 12:09 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: Playing with mathematical conventions and axioms

Post by h_k_s »

SubatomicAl1en wrote: August 1st, 2020, 12:15 am Let's say that I am a time traveller, and I travel all the way back to when civilization started. I start teaching everyone 1 = 2, so everyone starts developing math theories that are based on the assumption of 1 = 2. Will the answers still be "right"? Will every mathematical equation like Maxwells equation and Schrodingers equation just be written in a different way:? Or will there be actual different equations and laws of nature?
What I'm saying is, is there a direct correspondence between nature and our conventions and assumed axioms?
First, there is no such real thing as "time travel." It is a figment of pulp fiction in science.

Secondly, mathematics does not exist either. It is merely a game people play in their minds with definitions.

Mathematics probably began during the stone age when hunters were counting game animals in a herd, or when gatherers were counting seeds, nuts, and fruits gathered for the tribe or clan.

Mathematics probably began with human fingers associated with counting, such as I, II, III, IIII, IIIII, etc.

Then someone probably made shortcuts such as I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, etc. We know from history that the Egyptians and Greeks used a base 10, which probably came from their 10 fingers or 10 toes, and that the Babylonians use a base 7 from the 5 visible planets in the night sky together with Sun and Moon.

You can use any base you want.

Thus in your primitive example, 1 cannot ever equal 2. That would be a contradiction. And in philosophy whenever you assume something in an attempt to prove it, if you arrive at a contradiction, then the assumption is determined to be false.

Do NOT confuse science fiction with philosophy.

Q.E.D.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Playing with mathematical conventions and axioms

Post by Pattern-chaser »

SubatomicAl1en wrote: August 1st, 2020, 12:15 am Let's say that I am a time traveller, and I travel all the way back to when civilization started. I start teaching everyone 1 = 2, so everyone starts developing math theories that are based on the assumption of 1 = 2. Will the answers still be "right"? Will every mathematical equation like Maxwells equation and Schrodingers equation just be written in a different way:? Or will there be actual different equations and laws of nature?
1 + 1 = 2 is true only because we define it as such, provided we accept the axioms (i.e. assumptions) of number and set theory. If you want to teach that "1 = 2", you will also need to define your new number theory, to describe how it makes sense, and is consistent, and maybe even logical. 😉 Oh, and how it is useful. 🙂

SubatomicAl1en wrote: August 1st, 2020, 12:15 am What I'm saying is, is there a direct correspondence between nature and our conventions and assumed axioms?
Yes. Nature is the Master, the Reference, and our conventions and axioms are our attempts to describe it usefully. This is the only correspondence that exists. You seem to be wondering if we can change the universe by changing our description(s) of it.... 🤔
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Science”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021