Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
- Maximum7
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Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Anyway, which school of thought should I believe? Which one is more likely to be true?
PLEASE. If you have any sources besides Stiegler or Isaac Arthur that touch on this subject; please share with me. I NEED some closure.
- JackDaydream
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
I don't see why you have to make a choice between physics or philosophy as the two can be complementary. Science has been important not simply for making things which we need, but has been central in philosophy. But paradigms change within scientific thinking and the quantum physics of Einstein's thinking has broken down the Cartesian-Newtonian system of thinking about the world and science is evolving. In some ways, aspects of science may be starting to replace the ideas of philosophy in academic and popular thinking, but philosophy is still needed to interpret the findings of the scientists and even physics and other physical sciences make certain metaphysics assumptions and have inherent sets of values.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
As to the question of whether science and technology have a limit, and whether humans will eventually exhaust the finitude of reality, I do not think it will be exhausted. Humans have an infinite curiosity, and it is also important to remember that humans are themselves finite, limited by their lifespan among other things. There is no such thing as "science and technology" apart from scientists themselves, and scientists have limitations of various kinds. The limitations of scientists are probably far more significant than the limitation of the universe's finitude.
Socrates: He's like that, Hippias, not refined. He's garbage, he cares about nothing but the truth.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Science and technology are theoretically limited by the combination of properties of the physical, which of course is a finite number so large, from the human perspective it is functionally infinite. What is a much smaller number is the length of time the total human experience will end up being.Maximum7 wrote: ↑August 28th, 2021, 2:30 pm I am obsessed with the speculation that science and technology may reach an endpoint or inversely never end. Philosopher Bernard Stiegler argued that technology is a living form of memory and is constantly advancing. It is almost a law of nature. Yet physicists like Isaac Arthur argue that science and technology has a limit because there are only so many different things you can do with the particles of the universe. Both offer excellent points. Philosophy is the science of thinking of why things are, based on logic. Technology will always advance because logically there will always be stuff we want to create (as long as people are still around of course). However, physics measures things in the universe with cold hard facts and it may be that the universe itself is finite and humans may actually find themselves “retiring” science as a study in 3000 AD or something.
Anyway, which school of thought should I believe? Which one is more likely to be true?
PLEASE. If you have any sources besides Stiegler or Isaac Arthur that touch on this subject; please share with me. I NEED some closure.
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
I tend to agree with those who have commented before me. Science and philosophy are complementary. Neither one is sufficient in itself: they offer different understandings of life, the universe and everything.Maximum7 wrote: ↑August 28th, 2021, 2:30 pm I am obsessed with the speculation that science and technology may reach an endpoint or inversely never end. Philosopher Bernard Stiegler argued that technology is a living form of memory and is constantly advancing. It is almost a law of nature. Yet physicists like Isaac Arthur argue that science and technology has a limit because there are only so many different things you can do with the particles of the universe. Both offer excellent points. Philosophy is the science of thinking of why things are, based on logic. Technology will always advance because logically there will always be stuff we want to create (as long as people are still around of course). However, physics measures things in the universe with cold hard facts and it may be that the universe itself is finite and humans may actually find themselves “retiring” science as a study in 3000 AD or something.
Anyway, which school of thought should I believe? Which one is more likely to be true?
As for limits, and how far we can go, I don't think we will ever stop learning new things about the universe. Someone - Aristotle? - famously opined that the wise man knows how little he knows, and I definitely subscribe to this point of view.
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Science provides facts and the source of technology. Philosophy is the love of wisdom and the source of wisdom is meaning. But what is meaning? When a person is guided by the relativity of meaning, then they have wisdomMaximum7 wrote: ↑August 28th, 2021, 2:30 pm I am obsessed with the speculation that science and technology may reach an endpoint or inversely never end. Philosopher Bernard Stiegler argued that technology is a living form of memory and is constantly advancing. It is almost a law of nature. Yet physicists like Isaac Arthur argue that science and technology has a limit because there are only so many different things you can do with the particles of the universe. Both offer excellent points. Philosophy is the science of thinking of why things are, based on logic. Technology will always advance because logically there will always be stuff we want to create (as long as people are still around of course). However, physics measures things in the universe with cold hard facts and it may be that the universe itself is finite and humans may actually find themselves “retiring” science as a study in 3000 AD or something.
Anyway, which school of thought should I believe? Which one is more likely to be true?
PLEASE. If you have any sources besides Stiegler or Isaac Arthur that touch on this subject; please share with me. I NEED some closure.
Money represents meaning but why is a dollar meaningful? I know of no better intro to this essential topic you bring than Jacob Needleman's book: https://www.amazon.com/Money-Meaning-Li ... 0385262426
Maybe it can help your need for closure as it helped my need to understand.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Technology is always a human issue, so one might expect that philosophy somehow deals with it, however, since there are many issues that would require specialized knowledge from many fields, the methods of philosophy alone are very limited. The best chances of producing interesting insights on the possibilities of technology fall within the scope of social sciences.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
No, but they might be explained by philosophy (or physics), which is what the title topic asks about.Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 12:09 am Physics discovers; philosophy interprets...meaning the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Each of the technological artifacts humans have created are designed with a purpose and implemented accordingly. They don't need to be further explained beyond the motive which created it. Tools don't require a philosophy.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 6:31 amNo, but they might be explained by philosophy (or physics), which is what the title topic asks about.Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 12:09 am Physics discovers; philosophy interprets...meaning the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 12:09 am Physics discovers; philosophy interprets...meaning the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 6:31 am No, but they might be explained by philosophy (or physics), which is what the title topic asks about.
The title asks about explaining the limits of technology, not explaining technology.Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 5:40 pm Each of the technological artifacts humans have created are designed with a purpose and implemented accordingly. They don't need to be further explained beyond the motive which created it. Tools don't require a philosophy.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
...and I replied directly by writing...the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 1st, 2021, 8:58 amTegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 12:09 am Physics discovers; philosophy interprets...meaning the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 6:31 am No, but they might be explained by philosophy (or physics), which is what the title topic asks about.The title asks about explaining the limits of technology, not explaining technology.Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 5:40 pm Each of the technological artifacts humans have created are designed with a purpose and implemented accordingly. They don't need to be further explained beyond the motive which created it. Tools don't require a philosophy.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 1st, 2021, 8:58 amTegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 12:09 am Physics discovers; philosophy interprets...meaning the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 6:31 am No, but they might be explained by philosophy (or physics), which is what the title topic asks about.The title asks about explaining the limits of technology, not explaining technology.Tegularius wrote: ↑August 31st, 2021, 5:40 pm Each of the technological artifacts humans have created are designed with a purpose and implemented accordingly. They don't need to be further explained beyond the motive which created it. Tools don't require a philosophy.
...which is what I commented on. We've gone round in a circle. The limits of technology are not determined by philosophy, I agree. But they might be explained by it, which is what this topic asks us to consider.Tegularius wrote: ↑September 1st, 2021, 5:02 pm ...and I replied directly by writing...the limits of technology are not determined by philosophy.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
Words, their meanings and how they're applied is not exactly fixed in many minds. Different perspectives abound, though the words are the same. This is certainly noticeable in philosophy and philosophy forums unlike the methods imposed by Law and the sciences where meanings are meant to be much more precise.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑September 2nd, 2021, 10:59 am...which is what I commented on. We've gone round in a circle. The limits of technology are not determined by philosophy, I agree. But they might be explained by it, which is what this topic asks us to consider.
I take the position if it were possible to explain the limits of technology then that explanation would also determine those limits based on the reasons provided. This, of course, has nothing to do with whether the explanation is correct or not.
To me, an explanation usually leads to at least some kind of intermediate determination on some subject. Though not precisely synonymous, they are connected since something determined is not likely to occur without first being explained.
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Re: Philosophy or Physics? Which one do you think accurately explains limits of technology?
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