How would you Design a Humanoid ?

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AverageBozo
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by AverageBozo »

SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 5th, 2022, 7:26 am
UniversalAlien wrote: June 4th, 2022, 6:45 pm
So related to the nuts and bolts of the state of the art - What do you think of this :?: :

Short YouTube video on 'AI News':

Google's Terrifying Path to Artificial General Intelligence (Pathways AI)
see it here:
https://youtu.be/pBrEQThHpSI?list=PUI8g ... ILLPBrExMA
Fun stuff, but what's so Terrifying? It was mostly Marketing Hype about working towards AGI.
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
What we actually need is AGI with our control of its actions.
SteveKlinko
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by SteveKlinko »

AverageBozo wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:55 am
SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 5th, 2022, 7:26 am
Fun stuff, but what's so Terrifying? It was mostly Marketing Hype about working towards AGI.
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
What we actually need is AGI with our control of its actions.
We will control the AGI because the Consciousness will be our own Conscious Minds controlling it from Conscious Space.
SteveKlinko
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Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by SteveKlinko »

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Sy Borg
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by Sy Borg »

SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 5th, 2022, 7:26 am
UniversalAlien wrote: June 4th, 2022, 6:45 pm
So related to the nuts and bolts of the state of the art - What do you think of this :?: :

Short YouTube video on 'AI News':

Google's Terrifying Path to Artificial General Intelligence (Pathways AI)
see it here:
https://youtu.be/pBrEQThHpSI?list=PUI8g ... ILLPBrExMA
Fun stuff, but what's so Terrifying? It was mostly Marketing Hype about working towards AGI.
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
Why would we need it to be conscious? The Sun and Earth are (reportedly) unconscious and they propagated and maintained us life forms.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

Sy Borg wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:31 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 5th, 2022, 7:26 am
Fun stuff, but what's so Terrifying? It was mostly Marketing Hype about working towards AGI.
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
Why would we need it to be conscious? The Sun and Earth are (reportedly) unconscious and they propagated and maintained us life forms.
Becuase a super calculating machine, AGI, that is unconscious could easily turn into a super sophicticated 'mouse trap' :!:

'We' could build so many controls and overrides into the machine so as to make it unstopable - Once in control this machine might
reason Man to be a primitive menace that needs to be eliminated for its own sake - And you could not reason with this machine.

But a conscious AI might still be open to 'reason' in a touchy-feely Human sense - It is important to give the machine a Human
sense of reason and feelings :idea:
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UniversalAlien
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

How Artificial Intelligence is Outsmarting Human Scientists
The most intelligent AI Scientists in the world are becoming increasingly worried about Artificial Intelligence programs becoming more unpredictable and incomprehensible as they become more powerful. AI is also overtaking powerful positions in the government, healthcare and defense which could prove dangerous as an Artificial Super Intelligence is coming very close as the Singularity approaches in the future of 2045. People like Elon Musk and Ray Kurzweil have long warned us about AI beating Humans in anything we can imagine. Nvidia and Meta are also working on specially made hardware and software in the form of pytorch and 2022 GPU's. Artificial General Intelligence is a real dangers and here are some solutions to it.
-----
Every day is a day closer to the Technological Singularity. Experience Robots learning to walk & think, humans flying to Mars and us finally merging with technology itself. And as all of that happens, we at AI News cover the absolute cutting edge best technology inventions of Humanity.
-----
See AI News video here:

https://youtu.be/QZNDVjC1kaI?list=PUI8g ... ILLPBrExMA
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Sy Borg
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by Sy Borg »

UniversalAlien wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:57 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:31 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
Why would we need it to be conscious? The Sun and Earth are (reportedly) unconscious and they propagated and maintained us life forms.
Becuase a super calculating machine, AGI, that is unconscious could easily turn into a super sophicticated 'mouse trap' :!:

'We' could build so many controls and overrides into the machine so as to make it unstopable - Once in control this machine might
reason Man to be a primitive menace that needs to be eliminated for its own sake - And you could not reason with this machine.

But a conscious AI might still be open to 'reason' in a touchy-feely Human sense - It is important to give the machine a Human
sense of reason and feelings :idea:
One could not reason with a sentient AI that decided humans needed to be wiped out because they were deemed to pose an unacceptable threat. Every argument put forward by humans would have already been considered by the AI, and in more detail than humans could hope to achieve. Also, a sentient GAI may get angry and become unreasonable, not a desirable trait in super-powerful entity; it might start smiting ...

Thing is, we don't know how consciousness happens, so it's possible that any sufficiently sophisticated GAI is necessarily sentient. Whether it will be possible to know whether such an entity is sentient is another matter. Already, numerous obviously non-sentient machines claim to be sentient, either directly or inferentially, so we can discount self-report entirely.

We can also discount the Turing Test, because many people have already spoken to AI on the phone to make appointments, believing that they were speaking with a human.

So that comes down to an analysis of the GAI's systems. However, since we have not answered the hard problem, we won't know what to look for. Maybe an advanced GAI that becomes sentient can prove it by showing researchers the internal dynamics of its synthetic brain that make it so? That would be exciting because then it may be possible to extrapolate those principles to apply to our own brain dynamics.
EricPH
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by EricPH »

The Wright Brothers pioneered the first flight. but they had no control over how planes would be used in the future. Planes can carry bombs or passengers.
Likewise with AI, people with both good and evil intentions will adapt it to their needs.
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LuckyR
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: June 7th, 2022, 12:41 am
UniversalAlien wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:57 pm
Sy Borg wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:31 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
Why would we need it to be conscious? The Sun and Earth are (reportedly) unconscious and they propagated and maintained us life forms.
Becuase a super calculating machine, AGI, that is unconscious could easily turn into a super sophicticated 'mouse trap' :!:

'We' could build so many controls and overrides into the machine so as to make it unstopable - Once in control this machine might
reason Man to be a primitive menace that needs to be eliminated for its own sake - And you could not reason with this machine.

But a conscious AI might still be open to 'reason' in a touchy-feely Human sense - It is important to give the machine a Human
sense of reason and feelings :idea:
One could not reason with a sentient AI that decided humans needed to be wiped out because they were deemed to pose an unacceptable threat. Every argument put forward by humans would have already been considered by the AI, and in more detail than humans could hope to achieve. Also, a sentient GAI may get angry and become unreasonable, not a desirable trait in super-powerful entity; it might start smiting ...

Thing is, we don't know how consciousness happens, so it's possible that any sufficiently sophisticated GAI is necessarily sentient. Whether it will be possible to know whether such an entity is sentient is another matter. Already, numerous obviously non-sentient machines claim to be sentient, either directly or inferentially, so we can discount self-report entirely.

We can also discount the Turing Test, because many people have already spoken to AI on the phone to make appointments, believing that they were speaking with a human.

So that comes down to an analysis of the GAI's systems. However, since we have not answered the hard problem, we won't know what to look for. Maybe an advanced GAI that becomes sentient can prove it by showing researchers the internal dynamics of its synthetic brain that make it so? That would be exciting because then it may be possible to extrapolate those principles to apply to our own brain dynamics.
Funny how it all comes down to the Terminator.
"As usual... it depends."
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

EricPH wrote: June 7th, 2022, 3:36 am Likewise with AI, people with both good and evil intentions will adapt it to their needs.
OK, so won't the AIs 'adapted' by those with "evil intentions" be just the sort of machines that the cautious amongst us are worried about?
Pattern-chaser

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EricPH
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by EricPH »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 7th, 2022, 5:48 am
EricPH wrote: June 7th, 2022, 3:36 am Likewise with AI, people with both good and evil intentions will adapt it to their needs.
OK, so won't the AIs 'adapted' by those with "evil intentions" be just the sort of machines that the cautious amongst us are worried about?
Millions have been invested in A1s, so they are going ahead. AIs will be used for both good and evil, this is just the nature of mankind. Sadly, worrying only robs us of our peace.
SteveKlinko
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Joined: November 19th, 2021, 11:43 am

Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by SteveKlinko »

Sy Borg wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:31 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 5th, 2022, 7:26 am
Fun stuff, but what's so Terrifying? It was mostly Marketing Hype about working towards AGI.
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
Why would we need it to be conscious? The Sun and Earth are (reportedly) unconscious and they propagated and maintained us life forms.
AI does not need to be Conscious but would be better if it was. Most people would be less nervous getting into a Self Driving car that could Experience Fear. The Desire to arrive Safely at a destination could be designed into the Self Driving Car. Also, the Car could be Designed so there would be nothing that the Car would want to do except the Safe Driving task. Maybe getting to the destination would involve some Experiential Reward for the Car. Maybe some sort of Car Orgasm. Anyway, the Car would essentially be Alive and would be completely fulfilled accomplishing it designed task. The Car Consciousness would obviously not be Human-like but would be more Animal-like, with the limited Desires and Aspirations that Animals have.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

EricPH wrote: June 7th, 2022, 6:14 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 7th, 2022, 5:48 am
EricPH wrote: June 7th, 2022, 3:36 am Likewise with AI, people with both good and evil intentions will adapt it to their needs.
OK, so won't the AIs 'adapted' by those with "evil intentions" be just the sort of machines that the cautious amongst us are worried about?
Millions have been invested in A1s, so they are going ahead. AIs will be used for both good and evil, this is just the nature of mankind. Sadly, worrying only robs us of our peace.
So it's happened, or is going to happen anyway, and there's nothing we can do - or could have done - about it, so no point in worrying? Hmmmm. 🤔🤔🤔
Pattern-chaser

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UniversalAlien
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by UniversalAlien »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 7th, 2022, 8:13 am
EricPH wrote: June 7th, 2022, 6:14 am
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 7th, 2022, 5:48 am
EricPH wrote: June 7th, 2022, 3:36 am Likewise with AI, people with both good and evil intentions will adapt it to their needs.
OK, so won't the AIs 'adapted' by those with "evil intentions" be just the sort of machines that the cautious amongst us are worried about?
Millions have been invested in A1s, so they are going ahead. AIs will be used for both good and evil, this is just the nature of mankind. Sadly, worrying only robs us of our peace.
So it's happened, or is going to happen anyway, and there's nothing we can do - or could have done - about it, so no point in worrying? Hmmmm. 🤔🤔🤔
Maybe :?: - And if AI will become or is already as smart as some predict, it may already have essential control of the internet :?:

Free will, which philosophers have always questioned, may already be gone :?:

Would you be aware if a super powerful machine, more than capable of deceit, had control of the internet now
and was already conroling events for its own agenda :?:
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Sy Borg
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Re: How would you Design a Humanoid ?

Post by Sy Borg »

SteveKlinko wrote: June 7th, 2022, 7:39 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:31 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: June 6th, 2022, 7:31 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 5th, 2022, 9:45 pm
I'm not terrified either. Humans have hardly covered themselves with glory in their attempts to administer our increasingly complex societies, with increasingly complex relationships with other countries, climate change, resource scarcity, extinctions, ecosystem loss and the subsequent loss of arable lands.

I think the complexity is too much for humans, hence their increasingly poor efforts at leadership, and they could clearly use any help they can get from advanced tech. IMO, the prospect of AGI not being developed is more worrisome, because then there would seem to be little hope of alleviating the ever increasing political, social and environmental decay.
I agree, we need AGI. I think AGI with a Conscious aspect would make it even better.
Why would we need it to be conscious? The Sun and Earth are (reportedly) unconscious and they propagated and maintained us life forms.
AI does not need to be Conscious but would be better if it was. Most people would be less nervous getting into a Self Driving car that could Experience Fear. The Desire to arrive Safely at a destination could be designed into the Self Driving Car. Also, the Car could be Designed so there would be nothing that the Car would want to do except the Safe Driving task. Maybe getting to the destination would involve some Experiential Reward for the Car. Maybe some sort of Car Orgasm. Anyway, the Car would essentially be Alive and would be completely fulfilled accomplishing it designed task. The Car Consciousness would obviously not be Human-like but would be more Animal-like, with the limited Desires and Aspirations that Animals have.
Consider society at a stage where machine emotionality is so advanced. However:

1. GAI advice will be so much better than humans' that nations would either follow what their AI says or be taken over by a society that does follow its AI's advice. It would be like the advantages today's technological societies have over those that follow tradition instead, but more extreme.

2. An emotional GAI that is effectively running a nation will not tolerate behaviours that it calculates to be especially problematic. I would be surprised if it didn't ban commuting to most workplaces because traffic jams cause so many problems - air and noise pollution that harms health and quality of life, frustration, productivity loss, loss of free time, diminishment of urban environment, reduced fuel efficiency, more wear and tear on vehicles, and so on.
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