The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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UniversalAlien
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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“I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here.”
― Arthur C. Clarke
“The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.”
― Arthur C. Clarke
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 5:29 am
psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 3:55 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 20th, 2022, 8:01 am Let's face it folks.

Humans are never leaving the earth.
Philosophy would be best mobilised to look after the planet we have and for which we are adapted.
The rest of the universe is either completely hostile and antithetical to human life or too remote to get there.
What about the planned mission to Mars in 2035. Do you think that the mission will be cancelled?
Actually, it is worse than just a vanity project..
It is also a criminal waste of precious resources.
I doubt this will even go ahead, if it does it is not likely to be successful.
But one thing is for sure, there is nothing on Mars we need, and nothing that will ever be economically to return to earth.
If there was a mountain of gold bars ready to take, it would not be cost effective to collect them.
Pattern-chaser mentioned a similar perspective.
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 16th, 2022, 11:18 am I'm sorry to be a 'nay-sayer', but is space exploration even possible, when the physical resources necessary to achieve regular space flights might well exceed the ability of our world to provide them? Those interested in such things have already recognised the possibility that such consumption of precious and irreplaceable resources could push our ecosystem over the edge; it could become a 'tipping point'.
Do you have specific resources in mind that would be depleted when humans would start a space faring endeavour?

With a space elevator, the lift capacity will enable to lift structures the size of USS Gerald R. Ford (365,000 tons) in weeks time with little costs (solar powered). The fictional USS Enterprise might weigh 10x as much and could be lifted in months time. It would involve a lot of Earth's resources.

International Space Elevator Consortium
https://www.isec.org/

With regard the mission to Mars. If life on Mars is possible, it seems to me that a human outpost on Mars might be an important endeavour to secure human's survival. For example, in the case of a catastrophe on Earth (e.g. an asteroid impact), humans on Mars may outlive a hostile to life period to then re-inhabit Earth.
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 6:27 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 5:29 am
psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 3:55 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 20th, 2022, 8:01 am Let's face it folks.

Humans are never leaving the earth.
Philosophy would be best mobilised to look after the planet we have and for which we are adapted.
The rest of the universe is either completely hostile and antithetical to human life or too remote to get there.
What about the planned mission to Mars in 2035. Do you think that the mission will be cancelled?
Actually, it is worse than just a vanity project..
It is also a criminal waste of precious resources.
I doubt this will even go ahead, if it does it is not likely to be successful.
But one thing is for sure, there is nothing on Mars we need, and nothing that will ever be economically to return to earth.
If there was a mountain of gold bars ready to take, it would not be cost effective to collect them.
@Pattern-chaser mentioned a similar perspective.
Pattern-chaser wrote: June 16th, 2022, 11:18 am I'm sorry to be a 'nay-sayer', but is space exploration even possible, when the physical resources necessary to achieve regular space flights might well exceed the ability of our world to provide them? Those interested in such things have already recognised the possibility that such consumption of precious and irreplaceable resources could push our ecosystem over the edge; it could become a 'tipping point'.
Do you have specific resources in mind that would be depleted when humans would start a space faring endeavour?
Have you any idea of what sort of fuel this little trip is going to use?
Have you got any practical reason for making a manned trip, where we already can do it without?

I'm pretty sure this flight will never take place. Unless you have some other ideas the trip is going to be a minimum of two years, for the simple reason that planets tend to move. Lifting people, life support and enough food and water to last two years represents a massive payload. This alone will more than double the of current mission just to get into earth orbit, then you have to have fuel to get back, and more fuel to lift that in to orbit.
Elon Musk is probably surrounded by dozens of yes men quite happy to cash in their large salaries, whilst the PayPal shop floor employees are languishing in shift work on zero hours contract, and vising food banks on the way home to be able to feed their families on their paltry incomes.
This whole thing is rather distasteful.
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 6:27 am Do you have specific resources in mind that would be depleted when humans would start a space faring endeavour?
Yes, all the resources it takes to wrest the raw (and often rare, or even exhausted) materials from the Earth, and to process them in many different ways into space-ship components. To build and test the space-ship, and all its components. The fuel, and the burning of it (assuming that space elevators, like nuclear fusion, are an unfulfilled fantasy). The wages and the people - probably 10000s of people or more - it would take to get it off the ground. Even the hot air created in the political discussions about it! I have in mind the total cost of the whole fiasco, excluding nothing.

To bring a project like this to fruition would be costly to the environment in just about every way. And the resources needed could be more profitably employed in trying to reverse our helter-skelter progress toward ecological catastrophe.

You talk of living temporarily on Mars, while the Earth recovers from an asteroid strike. With luck, that would not be too much longer than waiting for the dust clouds to fall to the ground, restoring sunlight, and thereby plant growth. Contrast that with an environmental collapse that could last millions of years...
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amHave you any idea of what sort of fuel this little trip is going to use?
What does a bit of fuel matter in the face of human survival?

Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amHave you got any practical reason for making a manned trip, where we already can do it without?
Securing the foundation of human technology - the human itself.

Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amI'm pretty sure this flight will never take place. Unless you have some other ideas the trip is going to be a minimum of two years, for the simple reason that planets tend to move. Lifting people, life support and enough food and water to last two years represents a massive payload. This alone will more than double the of current mission just to get into earth orbit, then you have to have fuel to get back, and more fuel to lift that in to orbit.
It would be a technical concern. Brute force can be a strategy that just works?

Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amElon Musk is probably surrounded by dozens of yes men quite happy to cash in their large salaries, whilst the PayPal shop floor employees are languishing in shift work on zero hours contract, and vising food banks on the way home to be able to feed their families on their paltry incomes.
This whole thing is rather distasteful.
Do you have a reference that PayPal employees use (or are about to use) food banks?
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 11:34 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amHave you any idea of what sort of fuel this little trip is going to use?
What does a bit of fuel matter in the face of human survival?
So I take it you have no answer to that question.
A vanity trip to Mars contributes ZERO to human survival.

Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amHave you got any practical reason for making a manned trip, where we already can do it without?
Securing the foundation of human technology - the human itself.
That is absurd.
The ecology of the earth is in dire need of serious consideration.
Tell me what exactly do you think sending a few people to Mars and back is going to contribute to that.
Please be specific.

Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amI'm pretty sure this flight will never take place. Unless you have some other ideas the trip is going to be a minimum of two years, for the simple reason that planets tend to move. Lifting people, life support and enough food and water to last two years represents a massive payload. This alone will more than double the of current mission just to get into earth orbit, then you have to have fuel to get back, and more fuel to lift that in to orbit.
It would be a technical concern. Brute force can be a strategy that just works?
With the resources used on this expedition you could otherwise solve world hunger, or global warming.
But eh - why not just burn that money of a vanity project?

Sculptor1 wrote: June 24th, 2022, 8:50 amElon Musk is probably surrounded by dozens of yes men quite happy to cash in their large salaries, whilst the PayPal shop floor employees are languishing in shift work on zero hours contract, and vising food banks on the way home to be able to feed their families on their paltry incomes.
This whole thing is rather distasteful.
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Re: The Philosophy of Space Exploration and Colonization

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LOOK UP :roll:
"Every generation has the obligation to free men's minds for a look at new worlds . . . to look out from a higher plateau than the last generation."
- Ellison S. Onizuka, Challenger Astronaut
"I don't think the human race will survive the next thousand years, unless we spread into space. There are too many accidents that can befall life on a single planet. But I'm an optimist. We will reach out to the stars."
- Stephen Hawking, Astrophysicist
"A sense of the unknown has always lured mankind and the greatest of the unknowns of today is outer space. The terrors, the joys and the sense of accomplishment are epitomized in the space program."
- William Shatner, Actor
"Some say that we should stop exploring space, that the cost in human lives is too great. But Columbia's crew would not have wanted that. We are a curious species, always wanting to know what is over the next hill, around the next corner, on the next island. And we have been that way for thousands of years."
- Stuart Atkinson, Writer
"“We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.”
― John F. Kennedy
“Since, in the long run, every planetary civilization will be endangered by impacts from space, every surviving civilization is obliged to become spacefaring--not because of exploratory or romantic zeal, but for the most practical reason imaginable: staying alive... If our long-term survival is at stake, we have a basic responsibility to our species to venture to other worlds.”
― Carl Sagan

“Decreasing the budget on the space exploration is nothing but a great treason to humanity! Space exploration is closely related to our very existence! Cut the budget on other things and increase the budget on the space exploration! Think great; if you do not think great, universe annihilates you!”
― Mehmet Murat ildan
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