If evolution began anew...

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d3r31nz1g3
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If evolution began anew...

Post by d3r31nz1g3 »

Would human beings evolve again? Or would a different intelligent species inevitably arise?

Seems a little old. On one hand, it seems kind of silly that there would be something other than humans. We're an incredibly standardized entity. Our faces, our eyes, our hair, our five-fingered hands and feet...

But how could we arrive at at a standardized human through a mass evolutionary process time and time again?

I think most people will answer that "a different intelligent species would have to arise". I'm honestly baiting this response and hoping to challenge it.
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LuckyR
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by LuckyR »

d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 29th, 2023, 12:48 pm Would human beings evolve again? Or would a different intelligent species inevitably arise?

Seems a little old. On one hand, it seems kind of silly that there would be something other than humans. We're an incredibly standardized entity. Our faces, our eyes, our hair, our five-fingered hands and feet...

But how could we arrive at at a standardized human through a mass evolutionary process time and time again?

I think most people will answer that "a different intelligent species would have to arise". I'm honestly baiting this response and hoping to challenge it.
Since random mutations play a role in the list of possibilities, the chance of homo sapiens arising is quite remote. However the chance of mammals arising is much higher. In that case the chance of an intelligent mammal arising that accomplishes similar things to homo sapiens is higher.
"As usual... it depends."
d3r31nz1g3
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by d3r31nz1g3 »

LuckyR wrote: May 29th, 2023, 7:24 pm
d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 29th, 2023, 12:48 pm Would human beings evolve again? Or would a different intelligent species inevitably arise?

Seems a little old. On one hand, it seems kind of silly that there would be something other than humans. We're an incredibly standardized entity. Our faces, our eyes, our hair, our five-fingered hands and feet...

But how could we arrive at at a standardized human through a mass evolutionary process time and time again?

I think most people will answer that "a different intelligent species would have to arise". I'm honestly baiting this response and hoping to challenge it.
Since random mutations play a role in the list of possibilities, the chance of homo sapiens arising is quite remote. However the chance of mammals arising is much higher. In that case the chance of an intelligent mammal arising that accomplishes similar things to homo sapiens is higher.
Don't you think there's other things to consider? Supposedly random mutations play a role, but the human organism seems incredibly standard.

Seems a little odd that something vastly different than us would arise through evolution. Head of hair, five fingers, five toes, head shoulder knees and toes...

What do you imagine an alternative species could hypothetically look like?
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Sculptor1
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by Sculptor1 »

d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 29th, 2023, 12:48 pm Would human beings evolve again? Or would a different intelligent species inevitably arise?

Seems a little old. On one hand, it seems kind of silly that there would be something other than humans. We're an incredibly standardized entity. Our faces, our eyes, our hair, our five-fingered hands and feet...

But how could we arrive at at a standardized human through a mass evolutionary process time and time again?

I think most people will answer that "a different intelligent species would have to arise". I'm honestly baiting this response and hoping to challenge it.
It would be mathematically impossible for humans to emerge.
Each moment the chance would exponentially direct a slightly different trajectory. Billions of years, trillions of mutations per year.
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Re: If evolution began anew...

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LuckyR wrote: May 29th, 2023, 7:24 pm
d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 29th, 2023, 12:48 pm Would human beings evolve again? Or would a different intelligent species inevitably arise?

Seems a little old. On one hand, it seems kind of silly that there would be something other than humans. We're an incredibly standardized entity. Our faces, our eyes, our hair, our five-fingered hands and feet...

But how could we arrive at at a standardized human through a mass evolutionary process time and time again?

I think most people will answer that "a different intelligent species would have to arise". I'm honestly baiting this response and hoping to challenge it.
Since random mutations play a role in the list of possibilities, the chance of homo sapiens arising is quite remote. However the chance of mammals arising is much higher. In that case the chance of an intelligent mammal arising that accomplishes similar things to homo sapiens is higher.
Not even mammals.
When Australisia split even mammals took a different turn.
Because it would no be that likely that reptiles of amphibians would have emerged from the sea, not yet the billions of species from Eucaryotic forms etc...
What chance governed mitochondria becoming symbiotic - without which all subsequent lifeforms depend?
d3r31nz1g3
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by d3r31nz1g3 »

But what of things like the anus? Certainly whatever intelligent species would evolve if evolution began anew would also have an anus. I think it would be very similar to ours.

Anuses are quite prolific in nature.
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by LuckyR »

d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 30th, 2023, 4:02 pm
LuckyR wrote: May 29th, 2023, 7:24 pm
d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 29th, 2023, 12:48 pm Would human beings evolve again? Or would a different intelligent species inevitably arise?

Seems a little old. On one hand, it seems kind of silly that there would be something other than humans. We're an incredibly standardized entity. Our faces, our eyes, our hair, our five-fingered hands and feet...

But how could we arrive at at a standardized human through a mass evolutionary process time and time again?

I think most people will answer that "a different intelligent species would have to arise". I'm honestly baiting this response and hoping to challenge it.
Since random mutations play a role in the list of possibilities, the chance of homo sapiens arising is quite remote. However the chance of mammals arising is much higher. In that case the chance of an intelligent mammal arising that accomplishes similar things to homo sapiens is higher.
Don't you think there's other things to consider? Supposedly random mutations play a role, but the human organism seems incredibly standard.

Seems a little odd that something vastly different than us would arise through evolution. Head of hair, five fingers, five toes, head shoulder knees and toes...

What do you imagine an alternative species could hypothetically look like?
Uummm... Homo sapiens seems "incredibly standard" to you because... you're a Homo sapiens, viewing the universe from your Homo sapiens viewpoint. I wouldn't consider an equally intelligent mammal as vastly different to Homo sapiens.
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Re: If evolution began anew...

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d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 30th, 2023, 4:02 pm Seems a little odd that something vastly different than us would arise through evolution. Head of hair, five fingers, five toes, head shoulder knees and toes...

What do you imagine an alternative species could hypothetically look like?
I've always thought three legs — or two legs and a tail, which is almost the same idea — would be more stable. Three arms would be useful too ... maybe with three fingers — or two fingers and an opposable thumb — each? Eyes that offer a 360° field of view would be handy too. Hair, for insulation, maybe underneath some robust scales, for protection? I like the idea of tri-axial symmetry in the body. I think it could give rise to some interesting consequences...
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Re: If evolution began anew...

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Pattern-chaser wrote: May 31st, 2023, 9:55 am
d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 30th, 2023, 4:02 pm Seems a little odd that something vastly different than us would arise through evolution. Head of hair, five fingers, five toes, head shoulder knees and toes...

What do you imagine an alternative species could hypothetically look like?
I've always thought three legs — or two legs and a tail, which is almost the same idea — would be more stable. Three arms would be useful too ... maybe with three fingers — or two fingers and an opposable thumb — each? Eyes that offer a 360° field of view would be handy too. Hair, for insulation, maybe underneath some robust scales, for protection? I like the idea of tri-axial symmetry in the body. I think it could give rise to some interesting consequences...
I am not sure that your body design would be that aesthetically pleasing, especially the tail and scales. I agree that two arms are not enough and, perhaps there could be a couple on the back, which could fold back like wings. I wonder if toenails and finger nails could be abolished because while they have a protective function they grow too quickly.

In the next round of evolution I wonder if shapeshifting ability could be included and then physical appearance and self image would be less of an issue for humans. But, it may require a slightly different form of body, of less gross matter. So, it may only be possible in the evolution of a future universe...
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Re: If evolution began anew...

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Pattern-chaser wrote: May 31st, 2023, 9:55 am
d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 30th, 2023, 4:02 pm Seems a little odd that something vastly different than us would arise through evolution. Head of hair, five fingers, five toes, head shoulder knees and toes...

What do you imagine an alternative species could hypothetically look like?
I've always thought three legs — or two legs and a tail, which is almost the same idea — would be more stable. Three arms would be useful too ... maybe with three fingers — or two fingers and an opposable thumb — each? Eyes that offer a 360° field of view would be handy too. Hair, for insulation, maybe underneath some robust scales, for protection? I like the idea of tri-axial symmetry in the body. I think it could give rise to some interesting consequences...
H G Well's the Tripods.
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Re: If evolution began anew...

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d3r31nz1g3 wrote: May 30th, 2023, 4:02 pm What do you imagine an alternative species could hypothetically look like?
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 31st, 2023, 9:55 am I've always thought three legs — or two legs and a tail, which is almost the same idea — would be more stable. Three arms would be useful too ... maybe with three fingers — or two fingers and an opposable thumb — each? Eyes that offer a 360° field of view would be handy too. Hair, for insulation, maybe underneath some robust scales, for protection? I like the idea of tri-axial symmetry in the body. I think it could give rise to some interesting consequences...
Sculptor1 wrote: May 31st, 2023, 11:37 am H G Well's the Tripods.
Indeed so.


JackDaydream wrote: May 31st, 2023, 11:27 am I am not sure that your body design would be that aesthetically pleasing, especially the tail and scales.
Tell that to a saurian! 🦖😉


JackDaydream wrote: May 31st, 2023, 11:27 am I agree that two arms are not enough and, perhaps there could be a couple on the back, which could fold back like wings.
Wings! There's a thought! Working wings, of course. 🧚‍♂️
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d3r31nz1g3
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by d3r31nz1g3 »

Take for example the bird.

Any bird. The most standard of birds. Plain birds like pigeons.

Maybe the types of birds that currently exist would not evolve once again, but certainly the standard archetypal "bird" would reoccur. Certainly you already know what I mean--they're a robotical, flighted class of organism that has feathers, beaks, talons... hollow bodies. The classical "bird" is highly likely to reoccur if the big bang started over.

Likewise, if birds would be highly likely to reoccur in another hypothetical instance, I think so too would something very, very much like humans.
d3r31nz1g3
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by d3r31nz1g3 »

I think birds would reoccur if evolution started again.

Likewise, something much like what we would call human would, too.

This is because of classical forms and how birds are robotically constructed to be able to fly. Flight simply requires certain traits. A feathered, flighted being would reoccur in another evolutionary instance. This feathered, flighted being would have a beak and talons.
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Re: If evolution began anew...

Post by Steve3007 »

It took about 4 billion years to get from the origin of life to the Cambrian explosion and then "only" half a billion years to get from there to here, despite several mass-extinction events. That, to me, suggests that whatever physical and chemical event(s) caused that sudden proliferation of complex life forms, the probability per unit time of them happening is extremely small. So my guess is that for each re-run, the vast majority would result in a world of very simple microscopic organisms.
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Re: If evolution began anew...

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Steve3007 wrote: July 27th, 2023, 5:00 am It took about 4 billion years to get from the origin of life to the Cambrian explosion and then "only" half a billion years to get from there to here, despite several mass-extinction events. That, to me, suggests that whatever physical and chemical event(s) caused that sudden proliferation of complex life forms, the probability per unit time of them happening is extremely small. So my guess is that for each re-run, the vast majority would result in a world of very simple microscopic organisms.
Interesting. So what you're saying is that life would re-emerge, but would 'normally' result in smaller and less complex creatures proliferating. Only exceptional, perhaps catastrophic, stimuli would provoke the emergence of more complex living things. So maybe volcanic events, or tectonic earthquakes, or the impact of large iridium-bearing meteors, bear some responsibility for the complexification (if that's a word) of life? That seems to make some sense to me...



P.S. from your name, Steve3007, I might hazard a guess that it's your birthday on Sunday. If so, many happy returns!
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