Is music a reflection of society?

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Ascendant606
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Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Ascendant606 »

Is music a reflection of society? Or does it lead society? Or both? If so then what does this tell us about our own society?

Most of the popular music nowadays is either:

1) people rapping about sex and drugs. 2) people singing about sex and drugs. 3) people singing about crashing cars into bridges. 4) people rapping or singing about partying.

Of course most of these people have little to no talent and dress like sluts or "gangsters". There are some artists that are talented and write good music, but those are not as popular and numerable.

So what say you?
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.
Jklint
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Jklint »

I don't know how these connections sometimes creep in but when listening to the Grosse Fuge by Beethoven it registers like a metaphor in sound for String Theory. Most of his Late Quartets in fact come across that way. It feels as if a spirit is being created at the same time as the universe.
Logic_ill
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Logic_ill »

Musical tastes might reflect the individual's tastes. However, one has to take into consideration what is actually made available to the general public. What is mass marketed and packaged, and what artist's are recruited for such things. I don't how the music industry works, if some artists are simply snubbed for no reason at all or profit, censorship reasons,etc but I don't think that is currently the case. I mean, I think we have access to plenty of good music these days, although you may have to do some searching because maybe there is a machinery tied to certain artist's that others don't necessarily get.

I've noticed a drop in diversity and some quality of the music these days, but this may be due to nostalgia or that I'm not looking in the right places. It may also be that that is what people make most popular, so it is a reflection of our society in these cases. I'm not too impressed from what I've been getting from the radio lately. I mostly visit the stations that have seventies, eitghties and nineties music, but the other stations that offer the modern music is not too memorable, with exceptions.
Stormcloud
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm with you Logic. My prefered (and only radio station that plays classical music) has the past few years gone down the gurgler in my estimation; I mean, where the f@#ck are they digging this s#@t up from? 8 times out of 10 I immediately switch the radio straight off again and it is not uncommon to hear me screaming in agony at the cacophony of ear piercing drivel that now poses as classical music notwithstanding all the "music experts" that delight in teasing you with a few sweet bars before decimating the piece with endless chatter, coupled with despairing "news" every half hour! Will someone tell me there is not a conspiracy to de sensitise the whole population and drive away the last vestiges of tenderness and harmony that we posess? Well, I still have the LPs & CDs fortunately but gone are the days when I could be spontaneous, switch on the radio and be surprised. Ascendant606, the music tells me society is very angry and sad and why wouldn't it be with the limited choices served up? It would appear, like media do, certain elements feed society. If you serve up enough rubbish long enough people will develop a taste for it as they have nothing else to compare. Ugh, it makes my heart heavy. I do like a bit of rock n' roll and 60/70s music at times so am not one dimensional.
Keithprosser3
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Keithprosser3 »

I think you realise your not young any more when your albums are from 20+ years ago and all you get when you mention Adam Ant are blank looks.

Probably always been that way. I expect there were parents in the 17th century complaining their kids were playing JS Bach on the harpsichord all day instead of "Proper music, like Pachelbel".

In my day we said 'If it's too loud, you're too old'. I now realise we were right.
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Intropersona
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Intropersona »

Ascendant606 wrote:Is music a reflection of society? Or does it lead society? Or both? If so then what does this tell us about our own society?

Most of the popular music nowadays is either:

1) people rapping about sex and drugs. 2) people singing about sex and drugs. 3) people singing about crashing cars into bridges. 4) people rapping or singing about partying.

Of course most of these people have little to no talent and dress like sluts or "gangsters". There are some artists that are talented and write good music, but those are not as popular and numerable.

So what say you?
Everything is a reflection of everything else.
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Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

I shall answer a question with a question:

Which society?
Pastabake
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Pastabake »

When you consider that the best selling artists only manage to shift a few million units I would have to state that 'music' isn't really universal enough to be representative of anything much. Mostly it just represents youthful poor taste.
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Shadowfax
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Shadowfax »

Not all music is a representation of society. You're looking at pop culture, which tends to mimic trends/ mindsets of the majority of society which listens to that kind of music; youths. Pop culture is commercial music, and commercialism is about selling what the society demands.
Stormcloud
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Stormcloud »

Shadowfax, society 'only demands' what is served up to them. How many people receive an education in musical variety from a young age? Very few. Every time a car goes past with the speakers sounding 'doof doof' my wife turns and says: "Listen.... there goes another washing machine on wheels." :lol:

Baaaaaaaa!
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Shadowfax
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Shadowfax »

Stormcloud wrote:Shadowfax, society 'only demands' what is served up to them
It makes no sense to supply music that society doesn't demand.
Stormcloud wrote:How many people receive an education in musical variety from a young age? Very few.
You don't need an education in music to appreciate it. These days pop culture isn't just about good music. It's about lyrical quantity.
Pastabake
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Pastabake »

Society doesn't demand any of it. Lets get one thing straight. A very small subset of society demands any one type of music.

Stormcloud is of course correct, demand is something manufactured, music hasn't been sold on quality of lyrics since the invention of the music video. Today things like the X-Factor, TV & Radio hype shows, marketing and faked sales figures confuse the idiots into buying what they believe is popular in the belief that embodying 'popular' is a positive attribute.
Shadowfax wrote:These days pop culture isn't just about good music. It's about lyrical quantity.
Pop culture isn't and has never been about good music, one of the enduring realities of pop music is that even if you like it at the time in retrospect you can't help but realise that the vast majority of it is dross and the rest is so wrapped up in a sense of time and nostalgia that you're incapable of objectively isolating it from your own history. Good music is something that rarely becomes popular. Robbie Williams is at present the UK No.1 - and if you trawl back through the UK No.1's and best selling records for the last 50 years you are on a journey of mediocrity and often outright talentless rubbish.

I'd like to see these lyrics because as far as I'm aware for the past 20-30 years and longer it's just the same old recycled nonsense that appeals only the the uneducated who mistake it as original.

I'll leave you on this simple observation ... Robbie Williams got the 1000th No.1 in 2013. In 1984 Now That's What I Call Music 3 was the 300th and in 1956 Sinatra got the 1st.

It took 28 years to get to 300, but only 29 to get 700 more. Pop music has increasingly lost its endurance.
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Shadowfax
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Shadowfax »

Pastabake wrote:Society doesn't demand any of it. Lets get one thing straight. A very small subset of society demands any one type of music.
Well exactly. Pop culture. This is the reason I said not all music is a representation of society's mindset. Pop culture is just an example.
Pastabake wrote: Today things like the X-Factor, TV & Radio hype shows, marketing and faked sales figures confuse the idiots into buying what they believe is popular in the belief that embodying 'popular' is a positive attribute.
X factor is a popularity contest. Viewers vote. Whose going to watch a music video that nobody understands/wants to see? Have you wondered why Justin Bieber and One Direction are popular? What's popular is based on the population. Marketers sell what the population wants. If the population doesn't want it, the product won't sell.
Pastabake wrote:Pop culture isn't and has never been about good music, one of the enduring realities of pop music is that even if you like it at the time in retrospect you can't help but realise that the vast majority of it is dross and the rest is so wrapped up in a sense of time and nostalgia that you're incapable of objectively isolating it from your own history. Good music is something that rarely becomes popular. Robbie Williams is at present the UK No.1 - and if you trawl back through the UK No.1's and best selling records for the last 50 years you are on a journey of mediocrity and often outright talentless rubbish.
'Good' is a vague description. What you perceive to be good music is different to what teens believe to be good music. I am making a generalisation. Teens obviously don't think pop music is bad, do they? (in general)

Pop culture isn't a case of what's good and what's not. It's what sells.
Pastabake wrote:I'd like to see these lyrics because as far as I'm aware for the past 20-30 years and longer it's just the same old recycled nonsense that appeals only the the uneducated who mistake it as original.
Yes, your right. Again, it's what sells. Lyrics in pop culture are virtually the same. Relationships/sex/parties.

The question doesn't concern which music is classified as good/bad/original/unoriginal. I brought it up, not because I think it's terrific, but because it reflects a certain demographic's mindset.
Stormcloud
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Stormcloud »

Shadowfax, you read me wrong. By education in music variety I mean being 'exposed' to all different genres of music. What influences the choice of the young is what their peer group go with as it is important to them to have an identity - which is generally by following within the safety of 'the herd.' The genre of music is basically chosen FOR THEM. Unless one chooses to be a rebel and be "different" but even then, they are still identifying with another herd.Those that truly appreciate music in itself dont necessarily go for the lyrics - a la early Elvis. As I said once before, ones taste in music should be progressive - as one matures - so does ones taste become more refined (unless, of course, you are stuck firm within the safety of the herd - a la Pink Floyd's comfortably numb). Pastabake understands where I am coming from. Shadowfax, you can be very picky! :D


MUSIC IS A REFLECTION OF SOCIETY IS A REFLECTION OF MUSIC
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Thinking critical
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Re: Is music a reflection of society?

Post by Thinking critical »

Ascendant606 wrote:Is music a reflection of society? Or does it lead society? Or both? If so then what does this tell us about our own society?

Most of the popular music nowadays is either:

1) people rapping about sex and drugs. 2) people singing about sex and drugs. 3) people singing about crashing cars into bridges. 4) people rapping or singing about partying.

Of course most of these people have little to no talent and dress like sluts or "gangsters". There are some artists that are talented and write good music, but those are not as popular and numerable.

So what say you?
Your question is kind of a false tautology in assuming one or the other, anyway, the truth is music is a reflection of an individuals views, the views maybe socially influenced, but music can not specifically reflect society unless the society as a whole has participated in writing the song.

It seems you have targeted the hip hop genre in particular, with your comment of rapping about drugs and dressing like gangsters while having no talent. The thing is hip hop was born in urban communities where gang bangers and drugs were a everyday occurrence, so it comes as no surprise that the style of music that originated from areas with gangsters and drugs would talk about gangsters and drugs.

At the end of the day the majority of people don't understand enough about the lyrical content in music (espeacially hip hop) and the intended meaning behind it to make judgement calls. Hip hop tends to get the most slack especially because Eminem attracted allot more white people into the hip hop world by making "Gangsta Rap" more main stream.

All the other mainstream radio music you guys are talking about isn't an honest reflection of music in general, you're only hearing a small sample which has been specifically selected to obtain listeners and viewers. Unless you spend hours upon hours listening to all the music that's out there how can you provide relevant opinions on the subject?
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out
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