Is art and music dying?

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Jklint
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Jklint » October 8th, 2014, 3:04 pm

Hog Rider wrote:
You are kidding yourself - you cannot have experience of another's experience. You are not qualified to makes claims about another's "psyches" whatever you might think that is. And, yes, you do sound like an elitist, but not an elite.
Thank you for these deep insights. They wouldn't have been necessary if you would have understood what I wrote in the first place or at least what I implied.

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Hog Rider
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Hog Rider » October 8th, 2014, 4:48 pm

Jklint wrote:
Hog Rider wrote:
You are kidding yourself - you cannot have experience of another's experience. You are not qualified to makes claims about another's "psyches" whatever you might think that is. And, yes, you do sound like an elitist, but not an elite.
Thank you for these deep insights. They wouldn't have been necessary if you would have understood what I wrote in the first place or at least what I implied.
I cannot infer what you do not imply. I cannot infer what you do not imply in the same way that you or I have no access to each other's psyches. I can only remark on what you actually said. And you claim was false - you cannot have access to another's psyche. No one can do that.

Where you to stand on a high enough ivory tower you might think you have such access, and look down upon the great unwashed masses. That is why the idea that you are an elitist fits. The fact that you have not realised that you superior claims do not hold water means that you are not as elite as you think you are. You don't need to be a genius to work this out.
"I'm blaming the horrors of Islamic fundamentalism on unrestrained sexuality." Radar.

Jklint
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Jklint » October 8th, 2014, 5:25 pm

Hog Rider wrote: The fact that you have not realised that you superior claims do not hold water means that you are not as elite as you think you are. You don't need to be a genius to work this out.
You're right! Any idiot can do it!

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Hereandnow
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Hereandnow » October 8th, 2014, 7:19 pm

Hog rider: SO what is the fact the the change in art has been a widening, this is in direct contradiction of the thought that "art and music is dying." - when it so obviously is not. More people have access to more music that at anytime in history, and we are surrounded by art in a bewildering array of forms - look around you!
I see. But this bewildering array smacks of the old. a desperate attempt to find something novel in what has already been done. Picasso? I wouldn't have guessed him in a million years. i wonder, why is this piece so old school? I wonder about the context in which it was produced. Was he toying with tradition?

Look, it's not that people aren't doing things with the old; rather, it is what has been done masquerading as something new. A mustache on the Mona Lisa is still the Mona Lisa. And conceptual art, the newest idea in visual art, is more concept than art.

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Friendship
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Friendship » November 11th, 2014, 9:23 am

Personally I almost never listen to music; and despite considerable experience in the topic, I none-the-less distance myself from art. But do I think music and art are dying? I very much do not think so. Would I like to see that? Maybe. Since taking a greater and greater interest in the real, I've began to move away from art and also music which are 'doubles of the world', addictions, something extra. What is is good enough, it's not required to add a sound-track. Art is a duplicity, it's thinky and interpretive; art asks us to look at things through an ideology or dogma... Harrison Bergeron comes to mind.

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by A Poster He or I » November 17th, 2014, 1:09 pm

Do you think that art and music is a way to express things that science and philosophy have not yet expressed and that the more we understand the less relevant art and music will become? Or do you think art and music are separate and will always be around as a form of human expression?
I believe science, philosophy, art, and music are all deeply interconnected social phenomena that influence each other in indirect ways. I once prepared a multimedia presentation exploring the uncanny parallels between the rise of Romanticism in the 19th century in philosophy, art, and music, and how it influenced late 19th century scientific inquiry. The same presentation went onto explore how the almost-simultaneous revolutions in early 20th century science, art, classical music, and philosophy all reflected a fundamental shift away from absolutism toward relativism.

Art and music are not dying because philosophy and science are not dying. What is happening is a continuing fragmentation. The days of sweeping "movements" may be over, so it is harder for any one form of artistic expression to take predominance. So what we see is a very visible pluralism in art and music, while for theoretical science, we see trouble finding grounding for theory that has veered into untestability. There is pluralism in philosophy as well (not academic philosophy which becomes increasingly irrelevant) but primarily in political philosophy where extremism is becoming more and more visible.

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Greta » December 9th, 2014, 9:16 am

Friendship wrote:Personally I almost never listen to music; and despite considerable experience in the topic, I none-the-less distance myself from art. But do I think music and art are dying? I very much do not think so. Would I like to see that? Maybe. Since taking a greater and greater interest in the real, I've began to move away from art and also music which are 'doubles of the world', addictions, something extra. What is is good enough, it's not required to add a sound-track. Art is a duplicity, it's thinky and interpretive; art asks us to look at things through an ideology or dogma... Harrison Bergeron comes to mind.
We are wired differently. Music is very important to me, especially instrumentals. It fills my mind and pushes out the words, which I find therapeutic, not to mention the well-documented healthful benefits of rhythm and sound generally.

While nature can be beautiful and inspiring so can the human spirit, and that beauty and inspiration can be shared through art. Art isn't necessarily a duplicate or an unnecessary layer and instead can be a direct and complex expression, touching places that words cannot but you have to submit your mind to it. Art doesn't have to be great, just sincere and original.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated—Gandhi.

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Hypafix
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Hypafix » December 10th, 2014, 3:14 am

Present awareness wrote:
Cogito ergo sum wrote:Do you think that art and music is a way to express things that science and philosophy have not yet expressed and that the more we understand the less relevant art and music will become? Or do you think art and music are separate and will always be around as a form of human expression? Thank you and I am very interested in hearing your responses.
You are talking about three separate forms of communication. Science and philosophy communicate thru words and ideas. Music communicates thru sound vibrations, tones and rhythm, whereas art communicates thru visual expression.

As long as humans experience emotions, music and art will always have a place in our culture. If however, humans become completely logical, (Mr. Spock on Star Trek), then perhaps music and art will gradually die out.
I agree on some parts of what you said and very much so disagree on others.

You are creating such a clear cut, black and white distinction between different mediums, but I assure you its a lot more grey. Science, philosophy, music, and art all share similar modes of communication. Music and art definitely communicate through ideas and concepts, and also in the more limited words and verbal notions as well. Art is most definitely not simply visual expression, and science and philosophy can harness visual expression to more clearly and easily communicate complex concepts.

Art and music - and all creative expression - will always be informed by science and philosophy, among many other things. The human mind expresses itself in the medium of fantasy. So as long as we can think for ourselves, we'll be exercising creativity as a part of our nature.
its not about learning, its about making connections between the things we've learned

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by SoylentGreen » December 20th, 2014, 1:31 am

No music and art are surviving, but music was given a death kick by Rappers and is now making a comeback. Maybe if we're lucky we'll see the day that Rap dies and that can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. But what do you mean by art? Paintings, movies, books/literature/philosophy? Philosophy is dead if you listen to some idiots who have the nerve to call themselves philosophers. I'm convinced it's still alive. Paintings are better than ever--if you take a look at what's being done today, same in movies at least where we take the very best that are being produced, same with novels of whatever kind. So I think we're presently in a state of revolution where the arts are concerned but we're so accustomed to this age of creativity that we don't see it or appreciate it.

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by 3uGH7D4MLj » December 22nd, 2014, 1:06 am

Cogito ergo sum wrote:Bob Dylan expressed it very well when he performed "like a rolling stone" at the Newport Folk festival in, I believe 1968, and he, as if saying it to the audience, "how does it feel, to be on your own, with no direction home?" He was abandoning his earlier folk style and went with an electric rock style.
My answer to the topic would be "no." Art and music seem to be alive and well.

But what caught my eye is your Dylan comment. Not a good example of anything because your statement is incorrect. It's all very well documented, the year of the Newport festival, what songs were played, when Like a Rolling Stone was written, and so forth.
fair to say

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Cogito ergo sum » December 22nd, 2014, 3:50 pm

3uGH7D4MLj wrote:
Cogito ergo sum wrote:Bob Dylan expressed it very well when he performed "like a rolling stone" at the Newport Folk festival in, I believe 1968, and he, as if saying it to the audience, "how does it feel, to be on your own, with no direction home?" He was abandoning his earlier folk style and went with an electric rock style.
My answer to the topic would be "no." Art and music seem to be alive and well.

But what caught my eye is your Dylan comment. Not a good example of anything because your statement is incorrect. It's all very well documented, the year of the Newport festival, what songs were played, when Like a Rolling Stone was written, and so forth.

You took that comment way out of context in the grand scheme of the topic. Also, it appears you didn't understand what I was saying in that statement at all and just looked at it and regurgitated it without any thought. I was not trying to talk about the Newport folk festival or what time precisely he played a song per say, I was simply saying that when he preformed like a rolling stone at the Newport folk festival for the first time... never mind. You would make a great reporter in todays market. keep it up.

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3uGH7D4MLj
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by 3uGH7D4MLj » December 22nd, 2014, 4:09 pm

Sorry. I checked, he did play Like a Rolling Stone at Newport. I thought that came later. Sincerest apologies.
fair to say

Tehsorso
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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Tehsorso » December 23rd, 2014, 4:08 pm

First of all, I would not separate art from music, or vice versa.

To answer your question, it would be highly unlikely that art, in some form or another, will ever "die", since it has proved to be one of the long-standing needs of people - and that is not the need "to express things that science and philosophy have not yet expressed" (which is a gross oversimplification), but the need to be, broadly speaking, entertained. People generally need and appreciate some form or another of "story" (our very thoughts seem to be narrative chunks themselves) learn to appreciate rhythm virtually since the day they're born (mother's heartbeats), strive for some sort of beauty in the most trivial aspects of their life (tidying their desks, for instance) and, by and large, enjoy spending time with/within/around things we generally label "art". No, most likely art will be around for as long as we'll be.

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Smurphny » December 29th, 2014, 4:57 pm

It's interesting to note that music is very much mathematical, objective. The best artists are often also good at mathematics. It's a type of intelligence. But, playing combinations of dots from a sheet can be infinitely different depending on who is playing or singing the notes. Art has been around for thousands of years and will never disappear because certain people are born with a musical, spacial, kinesthetic (dance), language arts (writers, speakers) capability that they MUST use. They have no choice. It is the denial of arts motivation to comply with what society deems as more important that causes great anxiety and unhappiness in those who deny themselves because others say they should.

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Re: Is art and music dying?

Post by Cogito ergo sum » February 2nd, 2015, 11:20 pm

Tehsorso wrote:First of all, I would not separate art from music, or vice versa.

To answer your question, it would be highly unlikely that art, in some form or another, will ever "die", since it has proved to be one of the long-standing needs of people - and that is not the need "to express things that science and philosophy have not yet expressed" (which is a gross oversimplification), but the need to be, broadly speaking, entertained. People generally need and appreciate some form or another of "story" (our very thoughts seem to be narrative chunks themselves) learn to appreciate rhythm virtually since the day they're born (mother's heartbeats), strive for some sort of beauty in the most trivial aspects of their life (tidying their desks, for instance) and, by and large, enjoy spending time with/within/around things we generally label "art". No, most likely art will be around for as long as we'll be.

That's where we differ in our views. I don't see art as entertainment. That's what brought up this post in the first place. Art has become nothing more than entertainment and we have missed something in that perspective of it. We have entertainment and we have art, the two are distinguishable and at some point merged together. The point of this post was to determine the line between art and entertainment.

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