Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Use this forum to have philosophical discussions about aesthetics and art. What is art? What is beauty? What makes art good? You can also use this forum to discuss philosophy in the arts, namely to discuss the philosophical points in any particular movie, TV show, book or story.
ernestm
Posts: 433
Joined: March 5th, 2018, 4:27 am

Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by ernestm »

Here's your chance to say exactly what you think of climate change activists splashing soup on rare artwork:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63254878

First thing, it wasn't damaged. However, although the BBC article is correct in other respects, the National Gallery does not put glass over its paintings, it had a protective layer of clear acrylic varnish so the varnish could be washed off without damaging the oil. It appears the varnish did its job and did not need to be removed or replaced.

The second thing, most people don't know that there are five surviving Van Gogh sunflowers. The four on public display are actually early studies for the fifth, which was renowned for decades as the most expensive painting ever. I was graced to see it in the 1960s before it vanished into its private collection, and it was incredible--the palette strokes were inches thick, making it three-dimensional. Most people assume Van Gogh painted it only once and have heard about its huge value so they assume, as the protestors probably did, that it was the attacked painting. That is to say, it is a rare painting but not irreplaceable, in fact, Van Gogh already replaced it with a much better version himself. Even so, it is definitely still rare, and it's rather a shame all five surviving sunflowers will never be viewed together, at least in our lifetimes.
Mercury
Posts: 377
Joined: December 17th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Mercury »

There's no such thing as a climate change activist. They're all anti-capitalists and misanthropes. Every single one of them. A genuine climate change activist would demand the application of Magma Energy technology - proven viable by NASA from 1975-1982, capable of supplying virtually limitless quantities of clean energy - massively more than sufficient to meet global energy demand carbon free, plus desalinate sea water to irrigate land for agriculture and habitation, recycle all waste, and extract carbon from the atmosphere - thus providing for a sustainable future.
Instead, they want us to sit in the cold and dark eating bugs; while they form a dictatorial green government that hates human beings, and considers their very existence a blight on mother nature - as justification to impose sustainable levels of poverty forever after. Also, apparently, they hate art!
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Mercury
Posts: 377
Joined: December 17th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Mercury »

* the above should read: "thus providing for a prosperous sustainable future."
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 8143
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by LuckyR »

ernestm wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 5:23 pm Here's your chance to say exactly what you think of climate change activists splashing soup on rare artwork:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63254878

First thing, it wasn't damaged. However, although the BBC article is correct in other respects, the National Gallery does not put glass over its paintings, it had a protective layer of clear acrylic varnish so the varnish could be washed off without damaging the oil. It appears the varnish did its job and did not need to be removed or replaced.

The second thing, most people don't know that there are five surviving Van Gogh sunflowers. The four on public display are actually early studies for the fifth, which was renowned for decades as the most expensive painting ever. I was graced to see it in the 1960s before it vanished into its private collection, and it was incredible--the palette strokes were inches thick, making it three-dimensional. Most people assume Van Gogh painted it only once and have heard about its huge value so they assume, as the protestors probably did, that it was the attacked painting. That is to say, it is a rare painting but not irreplaceable, in fact, Van Gogh already replaced it with a much better version himself. Even so, it is definitely still rare, and it's rather a shame all five surviving sunflowers will never be viewed together, at least in our lifetimes.
Okay. I don't support activists splashing soup on artwork, just as I don't support them gluing their hands to Ferraris and spray painting them.

All this sort of thing accomplishes is the article you cited and this thread. Which just marginalize the real issue of the climate crisis.
"As usual... it depends."
ernestm
Posts: 433
Joined: March 5th, 2018, 4:27 am

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by ernestm »

Mercury wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm There's no such thing as a climate change activist. They're all anti-capitalists and misanthropes. Every single one of them. A genuine climate change activist would demand the application of Magma Energy technology - proven viable by NASA from 1975-1982, capable of supplying virtually limitless quantities of clean energy - massively more than sufficient to meet global energy demand carbon free, plus desalinate sea water to irrigate land for agriculture and habitation, recycle all waste, and extract carbon from the atmosphere - thus providing for a sustainable future.
Instead, they want us to sit in the cold and dark eating bugs; while they form a dictatorial green government that hates human beings, and considers their very existence a blight on mother nature - as justification to impose sustainable levels of poverty forever after. Also, apparently, they hate art!
Well I know what you're saying, lol, and I'd slip quite a few brain-damaged or drugged-up anarchists into your misanthrope category, although I wouldn't make it such a blanket statement, I really do know what you are saying, I could cite bucket lists of names.

But to be fair, in this case they were saying to stop oil, so these two at least HALF agree with you.

On magma, I remember the geothermal research from back then, if that's what you're referring to. What I remember hearing is that it seemed promising when they measured temperature differentials on some test drillings and people got very excited about it for a while. But when they tried pumping heat transfer agents down and back up again, they had problems with losing too much heat while the liquids were traveling back up to the surface, and the end conclusion, as I remember, is that they couldnt get enough heat to the surface to run a turbine, it could only provide some warming, That was dropped as not very cost effective. But that was a very long time ago. Perhaps things have improved since then?
Mercury
Posts: 377
Joined: December 17th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Mercury »

Mercury wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm There's no such thing as a climate change activist. They're all anti-capitalists and misanthropes. Every single one of them. A genuine climate change activist would demand the application of Magma Energy technology - proven viable by NASA from 1975-1982, capable of supplying virtually limitless quantities of clean energy - massively more than sufficient to meet global energy demand carbon free, plus desalinate sea water to irrigate land for agriculture and habitation, recycle all waste, and extract carbon from the atmosphere - thus providing for a sustainable future.
Instead, they want us to sit in the cold and dark eating bugs; while they form a dictatorial green government that hates human beings, and considers their very existence a blight on mother nature - as justification to impose sustainable levels of poverty forever after. Also, apparently, they hate art!
ernestm wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 6:42 pmWell I know what you're saying, lol, and I'd slip quite a few brain-damaged or drugged-up anarchists into your misanthrope category, although I wouldn't make it such a blanket statement, I really do know what you are saying, I could cite bucket lists of names.

But to be fair, in this case they were saying to stop oil, so these two at least HALF agree with you.

On magma, I remember the geothermal research from back then, if that's what you're referring to. What I remember hearing is that it seemed promising when they measured temperature differentials on some test drillings and people got very excited about it for a while. But when they tried pumping heat transfer agents down and back up again, they had problems with losing too much heat while the liquids were traveling back up to the surface, and the end conclusion, as I remember, is that they couldnt get enough heat to the surface to run a turbine, it could only provide some warming, That was dropped as not very cost effective. But that was a very long time ago. Perhaps things have improved since then?
I'm inclined to the view the project was suppressed precisely because it could provide limitless clean energy. It would change everything. Given the depth of the climate and ecological hole we're in, it would probably take 200-300 years, but eventually, with limitless clean energy to spend capitalism would overcome itself. Limiting the energy available - or at least the price of energy is necessary to maintaining scarcity. Worse case scenario, prices of magma energy could be set artificially high to maintain scarcity; but in any case there are worse problems the future could be faced with. The sky could be on fire!

I cannot speak to the veracity of your recollections - nor indeed to the validity of the information you vaguely recall, but I have cited three NASA reports on another thread (link below) that say magma energy is entirely feasible. NASA were looking to draw energy directly from molten rock; not via the medium of an underground body of hot water. Most current, working hydro-geothermal systems draw energy from underground bodies of hot water; and already produce considerable amounts of energy in the US, New Zealand, Iceland - and other places around the world; those being the top three - in order, surprisingly!
Magma energy is massively more powerful; because the temperatures are far higher, and the source does not have a replacement rate issue. Hydro-thermal wells can become depleted - it may take years for the water to heat up again - this is the replacement rate; and perhaps this was what you heard about. Magma energy doesn't have this problem.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18284
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
ernestm
Posts: 433
Joined: March 5th, 2018, 4:27 am

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by ernestm »

Ah, well i didn't know about finding water next to magma. Thats very interesting. Here's what google shows me on it

https://www.science.org/content/article ... %20surface.

Somebody threw mashed potatoes at a Monet now.
Mercury
Posts: 377
Joined: December 17th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Mercury »

ernestm wrote: October 24th, 2022, 2:32 am Ah, well i didn't know about finding water next to magma. Thats very interesting. Here's what google shows me on it

https://www.science.org/content/article ... %20surface.

Somebody threw mashed potatoes at a Monet now.
It's actually a viral ad campaign for Heinz!
They throw soup at the painting and a guy runs over and starts licking it clean.
Strap line reads:
"You don't have to be mad to love Heinz, but sometimes it helps!"

Iceland Deep Drilling Project. I don't want to come across as a conspiracy theorist, but it's very strange, despite huge advances in drilling technology over the past 40 years, suddenly, magma energy is really, really difficult. Particularly when NASA demonstrated experimentally that this technology was practical 40 years ago. The method of injecting water into the ground - like they have done in Iceland, is the worst possible approach. It causes earthquakes as the liquid expands underground in a completely uncontrolled fashion. It's not what anyone serious about developing this source of energy would do.

Your article states:

"The idea of tapping the energy of magma came from a pair of accidents."

No, it didn't. NASA ran a major research program entitled 'The Magma Energy Project' from 1975-1982. They're pretending like the deep drilling project unexpectedly came upon unusually high temperatures, and they thought: "Hey, I've got a mad idea." What did they expect to find down there? Mashed potato? It's ********.

Developing this technology correctly, you'd drill many holes - straight down; line the holes, and then fit a closed loop system; cold water in the down pipe - hot water in the up pipe, passing through a heat exchanger at the bottom. It's not that complicated. Imagine a volcano crossed with a pin cushion. There's 450 volcanoes in the Pacific Ring of Fire - and approximately 1500 worldwide.

The real difficulties are political - not practical.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
ernestm
Posts: 433
Joined: March 5th, 2018, 4:27 am

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by ernestm »

I really don't know anything about that, but Im 62, I can hardly find someone to answer the phone in the doctor's office. At my age Im just ignored in the USA on political issues, I just gave up on it. So...mashed potatoes huh.

Such awful aesthetic appreciation.
Mashed potato belongs on Andy Warhol.
Monet deserves at least an oyster bisque.
Have these people no artistic taste at all?
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Belindi »

If the climate is destroyed it will be permanent for the duration of humanity and most other life forms.

If every lovely work of art is destroyed including each and every evidence of high culture, men will create anew. But not if men are either dead or struggling to breath air and drink water.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8713
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Mercury wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm There's no such thing as a climate change activist. They're all anti-capitalists and misanthropes. Every single one of them. Instead, they want us to sit in the cold and dark eating bugs; while they form a dictatorial green government that hates human beings, and considers their very existence a blight on mother nature - as justification to impose sustainable levels of poverty forever after. Also, apparently, they hate art!
This is a list of straw man attacks, nothing more.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
Mercury
Posts: 377
Joined: December 17th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Mercury »

Mercury wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm There's no such thing as a climate change activist. They're all anti-capitalists and misanthropes. Every single one of them. Instead, they want us to sit in the cold and dark eating bugs; while they form a dictatorial green government that hates human beings, and considers their very existence a blight on mother nature - as justification to impose sustainable levels of poverty forever after. Also, apparently, they hate art!
Pattern-chaser wrote: October 24th, 2022, 9:57 am This is a list of straw man attacks, nothing more.
You're right. However, these are no mere raggedy moppets that would fail to scare a crow, but carefully crafted straw men - accurate representations of the real life consequences of following in the course of an anti-capitalist approach to sustainability, based on the false assumption of 'Limits to Growth' - and it's not much better than dying of climate change. Thus I charge them, with the charge their position lays them open to - that they are anti-capitalists and misanthropes - to make the point that there is a better way: an approach that affords a prosperous sustainable future.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
ernestm
Posts: 433
Joined: March 5th, 2018, 4:27 am

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by ernestm »

Mercury wrote: October 24th, 2022, 10:29 am
Mercury wrote: October 23rd, 2022, 6:05 pm There's no such thing as a climate change activist. They're all anti-capitalists and misanthropes. Every single one of them. Instead, they want us to sit in the cold and dark eating bugs; while they form a dictatorial green government that hates human beings, and considers their very existence a blight on mother nature - as justification to impose sustainable levels of poverty forever after. Also, apparently, they hate art!
Pattern-chaser wrote: October 24th, 2022, 9:57 am This is a list of straw man attacks, nothing more.
You're right. However, these are no mere raggedy moppets that would fail to scare a crow, but carefully crafted straw men - accurate representations of the real life consequences of following in the course of an anti-capitalist approach to sustainability, based on the false assumption of 'Limits to Growth' - and it's not much better than dying of climate change. Thus I charge them, with the charge their position lays them open to - that they are anti-capitalists and misanthropes - to make the point that there is a better way: an approach that affords a prosperous sustainable future.
Well again I appreciate your sentiment, and had any significant damage been done, I would share your condemnation. And your criticism is correct.

I've been foillowing the debate on salmon farming in Canada for some time, and there is a documentary 'salmon confidential' in which the activists hover in boats around open-net river farms complaining they aren't allowed in to test the farmed fish for viruses. I had to think the salmon farmers have very good reason to think the activists would deliberately contaminate the farm with some lethal virus that is killing the wild salmon population in order to get it closed down. I could talk quite alot about that, but the point is, activists have created an anatagonistic situation that is not helpful, however much one agrees with their concerns.

I had expected to hear from some anarchists on this, I used to be on philsophyforum.com and anarchists have rather taken over there, and they got me banned for expressing such sentiments. I did think about it quite a bit and I try to express my point of view in a properly tempered way, or really I am guilty of the same extremism I criticize.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 15481
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by Sy Borg »

There are ever more extremists on both the left and the right. Is it overpopulation or social media algorithms, or both?

We have certainly seen the kind of violent and corrupt stupidity that the far right can manage, with multiple shooting, not to mention their murders, assaults and vandalism at the Capitol. Now we see the stupidity of the far left, whose vandalism likewise is indefensible.

Each group of extremists does nothing but undermine their cause, making people reflexively hostile to them, as seen on this thread. All it does is induce hatred and completely fails to highlight our serious environmental issues. If anything, it distracts.

Lock 'em up.
ernestm
Posts: 433
Joined: March 5th, 2018, 4:27 am

Re: Splash more soup on Van Gogh's Sunflowers?

Post by ernestm »

Sy Borg wrote: October 24th, 2022, 11:03 pm There are ever more extremists on both the left and the right. Is it overpopulation or social media algorithms, or both?

We have certainly seen the kind of violent and corrupt stupidity that the far right can manage, with multiple shooting, not to mention their murders, assaults and vandalism at the Capitol. Now we see the stupidity of the far left, whose vandalism likewise is indefensible.

Each group of extremists does nothing but undermine their cause, making people reflexively hostile to them, as seen on this thread. All it does is induce hatred and completely fails to highlight our serious environmental issues. If anything, it distracts.

Lock 'em up.
Well I totaly agree about the extremists on both left and right, but I attribute it to a different cause.

When Jefferson defined natural rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, he was drawing on Locke's Essay on Human Understanding, chapter 21, which says, (1) Human free will should not terminate human life, in order that a benign God may judge us in the best way possible in the afterlife; (2) liberty is necessary not just to enable choice of pleasures, but choice between good and evil, and (3) pursuit of happiness enables some to act for the greater good, which creates a proactive and progressive society.

In the last century, rights have become solely about personal material advancement. This inevitably results in an enormous amount of conflict in a capitolist system, and due to the USA's predominantly two-party system, the conflicts have all turned into purely partisan debates, as each party chooses its battle lines to procure greater support, extremists on any issue are enlisted as allies.

Personally I have been rather shocked how many have spoken in defense of environmental extremists just because it supports their position. The way things are progessing, a great work of art is about to be destroyed because of it. It's tragic.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of the Arts and Philosophy in the Arts”

2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...

The Advent of Time: A Solution to the Problem of Evil...
by Indignus Servus
November 2024

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age

Reconceptualizing Mental Illness in the Digital Age
by Elliott B. Martin, Jr.
October 2024

How is God Involved in Evolution?

How is God Involved in Evolution?
by Joe P. Provenzano, Ron D. Morgan, and Dan R. Provenzano
August 2024

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters
by Howard Wolk
July 2024

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side
by Thomas Richard Spradlin
June 2024

Neither Safe Nor Effective

Neither Safe Nor Effective
by Dr. Colleen Huber
May 2024

Now or Never

Now or Never
by Mary Wasche
April 2024

Meditations

Meditations
by Marcus Aurelius
March 2024

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

The In-Between: Life in the Micro

The In-Between: Life in the Micro
by Christian Espinosa
January 2024

2023 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021