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Is rap art?

Use this forum to have philosophical discussions about aesthetics and art. What is art? What is beauty? What makes art good? You can also use this forum to discuss philosophy in the arts, namely to discuss the philosophical points in any particular movie, TV show, book or story.
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jstarr
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Is rap art?

Post by jstarr » May 16th, 2009, 8:07 pm

Which philosophers would be most likely to embrace rap as art and which would be least likely?

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whitetrshsoldier
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Post by whitetrshsoldier » May 16th, 2009, 8:52 pm

You can't spell CRAP without RAP!!! 8)

Seriously, though, rap is just a poem sung to the tempo button on a casio keyboard.

I respect the lyrics from time-to-time, but the music is generally untalented and embarrasing. I normally wouldn't even consider it music.

The only rap I respect is the rap that actually includes musical instruments, like strings, etc., along WITH great lyrics.
"I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! I'm obviously just insecure with the ineptitudes of my logic and rational faculties. Forgive me - I'm a "lost soul", blinded by my "ignorant belief" that there's such a thing as reality and truth in the world"

jstarr
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Post by jstarr » May 16th, 2009, 8:56 pm

I disagree, not everyone can rap. I'm not saying that all rap music out there is great but it does take talent. Of course a lot of the newer hip hop music about chillin' with bitches and smoking a blunt does not include profound lyircs, but the songs that aren't just about being rich and famous have good messages.

Nick_A
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Post by Nick_A » May 16th, 2009, 10:30 pm

jstarr wrote:I disagree, not everyone can rap. I'm not saying that all rap music out there is great but it does take talent. Of course a lot of the newer hip hop music about chillin' with bitches and smoking a blunt does not include profound lyircs, but the songs that aren't just about being rich and famous have good messages.
Being able to kiss your behind takes talent too but it isn't art.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace

jstarr
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Post by jstarr » May 16th, 2009, 10:36 pm

Well are you saying that no philosophers would consider rap as art? As Hume follows the "beauty in the eye of the beholder" theory, it's open and it could be considered art depending on the individual. Or with Tolstoy and Collingwood, they agree with expressionism and how art expresses inner experiences, and isn't that what rap does?

Nick_A
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Post by Nick_A » May 16th, 2009, 11:06 pm

jstarr wrote:Well are you saying that no philosophers would consider rap as art? As Hume follows the "beauty in the eye of the beholder" theory, it's open and it could be considered art depending on the individual. Or with Tolstoy and Collingwood, they agree with expressionism and how art expresses inner experiences, and isn't that what rap does?
Rap "expresses inner experience." This is expression. Cursing out a traffic jam is expression as well. I just don't see what any of it has to do with with art. The only ones that can equate them are those that accept art and expression as the same. It may be good for making money but that doesn't make it true.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace

ape
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Re: Is rap art?

Post by ape » May 17th, 2009, 2:25 am

jstarr wrote:Which philosophers would be most likely to embrace rap as art and which would be least likely?
The philosophers most likely to embrace rap as art would be those who embrace Raphael, rhapsodies, op-art, trappers and trapeze, have rapport with the trappings of rappings, are rapturous about rap's therapeutic effects on the rappers and the rapped, and also see that all words, including 'rap' and 'music' and 'bees with itches,' are drawn from the right-side of the brain, and thus are art.

They would rapier-like also see that rap is and has to be english since it is spelled, and has to be math too since there are so many rap numbers, and has to be history too since there is the history of rap and the rap of history and many raps on history.

Those least likely to see rap as art are those who do not see the above---yet, and are not as yet familiar with a Sir Thomas Crapper, after whom crap in toiletry is well-named.:)

That's a wrap for now. ;)

tmv
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Post by tmv » October 15th, 2009, 4:05 pm

Any genre of music has it's examples of artists that are worth utter **** and those artist who have a real talent.

Mainstream any music genre is usually utter ****: Rock (Nickleback), Rap (Kanye), Country (Toby Keith, Rascall Flats) the list goes on.

It takes effort to dig down through the rubbish of music that bombards us every day to find the true representations of the genres.

prodygi
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Post by prodygi » October 26th, 2009, 3:32 am

Nick_A wrote:
jstarr wrote:Well are you saying that no philosophers would consider rap as art? As Hume follows the "beauty in the eye of the beholder" theory, it's open and it could be considered art depending on the individual. Or with Tolstoy and Collingwood, they agree with expressionism and how art expresses inner experiences, and isn't that what rap does?
Rap "expresses inner experience." This is expression. Cursing out a traffic jam is expression as well. I just don't see what any of it has to do with with art. The only ones that can equate them are those that accept art and expression as the same. It may be good for making money but that doesn't make it true.
All Art is Expression, but all Expression is not Art.
But, if you have the talent to produce art while cussing out a traffic jam, well, I guess you have created art. Although not all art is good art.

Oh, but hey, I just thought of this. I once drew a picture of a dog's head that is unbelievably good! So, I'm going to put it on ebay next week but I figured I would let you all have a first shot at it. Opening bid is $10,000 so let me know who wants it, it will be much much more at the auction!!
He so buried himself in his books that he spent the nights...and the days...[reading]; and so, from little sleep and much reading, his brains dried up and he lost his wits. ~~~Don Quixote

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » October 26th, 2009, 4:00 am

Of course rap is art. (It's certainly not science , nor common sense.) Whether or not any person would judge a work of rap to be a work of art is more to be questioned. Personally I feel that some rap performances are popular works of art.

The probability given the current consumerist ethos that any commercial pop music will be a work of art is comparatively slim, but not entirely ruled out.
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Invictus_88
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Post by Invictus_88 » November 4th, 2009, 8:40 am

Can't be be a craft, or a skill?

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pjkeeley
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Post by pjkeeley » November 4th, 2009, 8:55 am

Poetry, even bad poetry, is considered art. So why not hip-hop?

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Post by Invictus_88 » November 4th, 2009, 9:17 am

pjkeeley wrote:Poetry, even bad poetry, is considered art. [...]
Not by everyone.

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Homicidal Pacifist
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Post by Homicidal Pacifist » November 5th, 2009, 3:49 am

"Is rap art?"



"My words'll expose George Bush and Bin Laden
As two separate parts of the same seven headed dragon."

"Government ties is really why the Government lies
Read it yourself instead of asking the Government why."

"Colonialism is sponsored by corporations
That's why Halliburton gets paid to rebuild nations."

"They dubbed a tape of Osama, and they said it was proof
"Jealous of our freedom," I can't believe you bought that excuse
Rockin a motherf*cking flag don't make you a hero
Word to Ground Zero
The Devil crept into Heaven
God overslept on the 7th
The New World Order was born on September 11."

"And just so Conservatives don't take it to heart
I don't think Bush did it, ''cause he isn't that smart
He's just a stupid puppet taking orders on his cell phone
From the same people that sabotaged Senator Wellstone
The military industry got it poppin' and lockin'
Looking for a way to justify the Wolfowitz Doctrine
And as a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, now that I think back
Without 9/11, you couldn't have a war in Iraq
Or a Defense budget of world conquest proportions
Kill freedom of speech and revoke the right to abortions
Tax cut extortion, a blessing to the wealthy and wicked
But you still have to answer to the Armageddon you scripted
And Dick Cheney, you f*ckin leech, tell them your plans
About building your pipelines through Afghanistan
And how Israeli troops trained the Taliban in Pakistan
You might have some house ***** fooled, but I understand."

- Immortal Technique (Hispanic rapper)

(Excerpts from the song "Cause of Death".
It even sounds good too.)


That is art. And that is beautiful.
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies of the world,
and that is an idea whose time has come."

Belinda
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Post by Belinda » November 5th, 2009, 8:00 am

There are three definitions of 'art' that come to my mind.

1.One is that art has symbolic meaning or point to some social or metaphysical truth that artefacts or tools dont necessarily symbolise.

2. Art is defined by intrinsic quality of tehnique which may or may not be accompanied by meaning.

3. Art is a snobbish social category. Thus, a 'work of art' is thus because the people who have money and so-called 'taste' have declared it to be so.This definition of art would rule out rap and most other popular forms.
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