Is rap art?

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WorldWill
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Joined: January 17th, 2010, 9:05 pm

Post by WorldWill »

Honestly, maybe I was doing a little generalization in what I said. When I referred to Pirsig, I should have said that he was more looking for a rhetoric convenience-when he talked about just everyday life, of course-of making your own way through the mountain. I am not saying that all rap is necessarily bad, but I feel a little leaning in the direction of...desire music. Rap is organized sound, just like any other music. But if I, personally, were to choose between rap and classical, I would pick classical because of its "convenience" to me as an individual and the belief that it is more concentrating music. But then not all concentrating music is just limited to long dead composers-technically everyone dies, so rap artists will be considered "dead composers" in the future, but their music will still be the same. It is just a lot of areas that classical music was designed to be thinking music according to the melody and harmony patterns in it. Rap doesn't have to be completely carnal, it can be a tool to possibly reach out to the masses and get them to think, but I don't imagine that Kanye West will suddenly turn around and stop talking about...the trivial things. Sorry, I didn't mean to be assuming too much.
WorldWill
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Joined: January 17th, 2010, 9:05 pm

Post by WorldWill »

Honestly, maybe I was doing a little generalization in what I said. When I referred to Pirsig, I should have said that he was more looking for a rhetoric convenience-when he talked about just everyday life, of course-of making your own way through the mountain. I am not saying that all rap is necessarily bad, but I feel a little leaning in the direction of...desire music. Rap is organized sound, just like any other music. But if I, personally, were to choose between rap and classical, I would pick classical because of its "convenience" to me as an individual and the belief that it is more concentrating music. But then not all concentrating music is just limited to long dead composers-technically everyone dies, so rap artists will be considered "dead composers" in the future, but their music will still be the same. It is just a lot of areas that classical music was designed to be thinking music according to the melody and harmony patterns in it. Rap doesn't have to be completely carnal, it can be a tool to possibly reach out to the masses and get them to think, but I don't imagine that Kanye West will suddenly turn around and stop talking about...the trivial things. Sorry, I didn't mean to be assuming too much.
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Apeman
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Post by Apeman »

Since "beauty" (worth, relevance, validity and authenticity) are all solidly within the eyes (and ears) of the beholder, yes, rap can be Art as easily as ANY other decibeled thing composed by a creator(s) aiming to get advanced by causing aural meanderings.

Popular culture over-feeds but is never an indicator of Art. There are things performed before colliseum-bursting hordes that will not qualify as Art to some solitary plucker alone in a tavern having his way with the medium (sound). And that assessment is just as valid as any.
Belinda
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Post by Belinda »

Commerce will jump on to any train that is laden with money and popular culture is such a train. If middle class Mozart lovers were as lucrative Mozart would be better known although Mozart's music cannot be as trite as rap actually is. I don't know the history of rap, but for all I know it was conceived and elaborated by commercial interests in order to make money for its creators. This is not in itself bad, as the great masters of the past earned money from their art .The difference between, say Mozart's music, and rap is that the former is as WorldWill writes, "more concentrating music".

Education in music, like education in anything, costs money. Popular culture is for and by the masses who have not had the benefit of expensive educations in musical appreciation to prefer "more concentrating music". One struggles to keep intellectual snobbery out of this discussion, and so I do want to praise rap for what quality is undoubtedly has , despite its commercialisation.

I have not much hope, Apeman, for the quality of the art of the solitary plucker alone in his tavern. I wish I had.Some people dear to me meet the description. If these solitary pluckers had the flair of Bob Dylan, yes, but otherwise they need to sweat and work at their art before they produce "more concentrating music".
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WorldWill
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Post by WorldWill »

But, all in all, we all still arrive at the same conclusion. Rap is art. And to look at a dialogue by Plato-Ion-Socrates basically assumes that every work-farming, shoemaking, rhapsody-is all art, and that there is bad art and good art. What I was attempting to say here was a definition of bad art and good art. I was heading into a psychological spectrum, just like I would on a subject such as smoking-which I would declare a bad "art" because it can hurt you in the long run. Therefore if I take rap and classical-and this is another generalization because most likely all genres of music have their own musical scientist that help to make "more concentrating music"-I can specifically look at the quality of the two in pertaining to appreciation and contemplation of sound and so I would choose classical, because it is-again-more to my own likes and convenience-and it is something that I think will help the most in the long run. But, for the most part, music is commercialized and the masses will decide what is popular, a lot of people don't want more concentrating music, they don't want to think about it.
Belinda
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Post by Belinda »

I would declare a bad "art" because it can hurt you in the long run.
(WorldWill)

But some art in the most prestigious galleries makes you feel bad. Picasso's Guernica painting and the film Avatar both have tragic messages.Hurting is part of the remit of artists. Truth hurts.
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WorldWill
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Post by WorldWill »

Hurt psychologically, not make you feel bad. I'm talking from an objective standpoint, not a subjective one. Psychologically in the way that it can damage your personality, perception, and clarity of thought in the long run from a lengthened period that lowers the biology of the mind.
Belinda
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Post by Belinda »

I agree that bad 'art' is bad for feelings and reasoning. Bad 'art' can be bad for several reasons. It may lull you into a contented torpor instead of making you think and feel, as in escapist fiction or much of commercial pop music.

It can deliberately pretend that fiction is fact, as in some dishonest reportage.

It can cause sensations instead of feelings and wisdom, as in pornography.

It can waste time when a person can be working perhaps a bit harder to understand some art that engages the audience, reader or viewer in making sense of it.
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Paggos
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Post by Paggos »

I personally believe ignorance is a bliss.
Acquiring the lifestyle most rappers were raised in, this just promotes more ignorance.
Lol.
elusive_thinker
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Joined: September 22nd, 2011, 1:22 am

Re: Is rap art?

Post by elusive_thinker »

The majority of there remarks in regards to hip hop display a slight ignorance to an art form that is completley unique.

I can say this becasue i am a semi-professional hip hop artist myself. As stated earlier hip hop or rap is a form of poetry, the difference being hip hop has the freedom to use foul language to emphasis it's statements. As with all art, there will be some better than others. But invedibley it is the opinion of the listner whose judgement is relavant.
I use hip hop as away of describing the thoughts an experiences ive encounterd during my life, the trials & tribulations.
Hip hop is a tool i can use to verbaly tell these stories in a way that people will relate to and understand while at the same time listen to something they enjoy. The construction of multi sylable sentences with a continuous rhyme & flow is not easily achieved unless you have unique skill that a "hip hop" artist has.

"as the door closes
he starts to loose focus
voices from his past echo he's so hopless
they gave a damn they never took notcie
the words on his pad are sad yet so faultless
lead the kinda life that most could not cope with
seen the kinda sights that folks just don't notion
yet he still fights with both his eyes opens
knows deep inside that lies have been spoken
if he breaks down and cries that means he been broken
it means it's all ove dreams are up in smoke an
hes suffered for nothing
he'll live his life wandering
if he coulda been something
instead of just another dumb kid
with this big dream up in the cloud
he wanna be the man but he feel like a coward
put the mike in his hand, emotion devoured
then he opened up his mouth and the words came out"

If you can understand the technical contruction of this verse i wrote you may appreciate hip hop. If you don't then you do not understand hip hop. This is my art form, it is on display for the world to judge....
It is easy to turn a blind eye to ones achievements,
then judge them at there moment of weakness.
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Tr3solo
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Joined: December 8th, 2011, 10:04 pm

Re: Is rap art?

Post by Tr3solo »

Galaxies collide flights, intertwining their light,
while giving sight to blind lyrics that you read as I write.
These rhythms arise, then die, after re-giving life.
A phoenix flees from the fire, virgins breathe upon mics.
Exogen
Posts: 241
Joined: November 21st, 2011, 6:08 am

Re: Is rap art?

Post by Exogen »

Hands down I would say that rap is art. Being an artist myself and a poet and also a fan of rap music as well as almost all other forms of music I can say I am unbiased in this. Rap beats are created many times from samples yes, but does that mean that a collage is not art? If someone takes pieces of something meaningful and puts the jumbled pieces together in a new and meaningful collection in which the whole is greater then the sum of the parts, how does this not count as art?

The lyrics and deliver is surely an art form and a talent being a skill and no one would deny the artistic reality of poetry.

Thus I see now grounds to say rap is not art and therefore one must conclude that it is.
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stormy phillips
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Re: Is rap art?

Post by stormy phillips »

Everything is art, it's just that an artist has a way of making it their own, if they are good at it, other people want to know why....If they are really good at it, other people will want to buy into it. The best artists of them all are those whose name says everything.
Men are not disturbed by things, but the view they take of things.....Epictetus
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Zatoichi
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Joined: December 8th, 2011, 10:22 am

Re: Is rap art?

Post by Zatoichi »

I would simply say:"yes"... Since everything created for "eyes and ears" is an art...
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Cyanse
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Joined: December 13th, 2011, 9:38 pm

Re: Is rap art?

Post by Cyanse »

Yes…it‘s one form of music; has melody and rhythm (though noisy) and relaying a message.
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