The Beatles?

Use this forum to have philosophical discussions about aesthetics and art. What is art? What is beauty? What makes art good? You can also use this forum to discuss philosophy in the arts, namely to discuss the philosophical points in any particular movie, TV show, book or story.
Jester Gren
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Post by Jester Gren »

Algol Wrote:

""I think that the internet, cell phones, and all other modern forms of communication are of the very culture that needs to be countered. This whole lifestyle to me is in the wrong direction. I believe people are distanced from one another due to modern technology. We don't have the same sense of closeness as we did before. Remember when you could only contact another person through mail, your house phone, or going to see them in person? I was a kid then, but I felt so much closer to other people then I do now. Today people can communicate with one another more easily, but we're all blocked from each other in an intimate sense. I don't know what words to use to express how I feel properly on this matter, but maybe some of you can relate. Didn't any of you feel closer to friends in the early/mid 90's when cell phone and other technologocal 'necessities' didn't exist??""



I'm only 17, but I think I know what you mean. My circle of "friends" at school take it as given that a person will check their text messages every twenty minutes, figuring that the other person has no life except in case of emergency. In a case such as that you might figure that they would want to talk it out. In current times, that would infringe on the privacy they feel they can protect, but, from my experience, they end up having nothing special to protect in the end. They're all practically in safety nets so that they don't have to feel uncomfortable, but being in a net discomforts me.

I don't own a cell phone for those reasons, but I am alienated from my friends. As a movement, it would be a failure without followers.

That's why, like modern music, instead of destroying the movement, I think it should be updated; used in a way that fixes those problems and gains a new sort of integrity, with a new sense of personal boundaries. It's too easy to communicate quickly now to want to be isolated, so going back wouldn't fix everything, however, people are clearly not getting along very well as it is. Maybe there should be a movement that inspires absorbing more ideas, making up for ignorance, but letting people keep their space and personalities. A counter-culture would simply improve on these ideas by exploring radical options.

I think a new sense of music will stem from the same kind of movement, but I can only have a limited idea of what that could be at the moment.
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Interventizio
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Post by Interventizio »

Who considers Beatles' music to be art (because this is the topic of this part of the forum)? I think that just like the "culture" concept, the concept "art" has been overused. The Beatles were geniuses in inventing catchy songs, but they were after all songs for the industry. I am not biased towards commercial music, because art can bloom everywhere, but think about Hendrix. He's known for his freaky look, his most commercial songs and for the way he played his guitar. nobody seems to know any of the gems he composed, something resembling real symphonies among those. All that is quite sad.
Algol
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Post by Algol »

Interventizio wrote: The Beatles were geniuses in inventing catchy songs, but they were after all songs for the industry. I am not biased towards commercial music, because art can bloom everywhere, but think about Hendrix. He's known for his freaky look, his most commercial songs and for the way he played his guitar. nobody seems to know any of the gems he composed, something resembling real symphonies among those. All that is quite sad.
The difference between Hendrix and John Lennon is in the approach. Hendrix wrote and played great but he wasn't capturing his times. His music is reminiscent of the 60's but doesn't embody it.

Lennon on the other hand wrote of the times. If you want to experience the 60's in America, you have to know the Beatles especially in their psychedelic phase. 'Eleanor Rigby' sings of people as does especially 'A Day in the Life'. It's more then music with the Beatles. They preserved a decade in song. Far out man.
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MisterSlogra
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Post by MisterSlogra »

The Beatles were experts at popular music aesthetics.

The real evidence of this can be glimpsed by listening to Revolver and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, as well as their singles. You'll notice every song is very consolidated, precise, and lacking in superfluous mannerisms. They deliver music like an intoxicant, quickly and effectively, leaving their audience wanting more.

Whether this is art or not is open to debate, although it is clear that if they were simply puppets of a pop music industry, they were at least the most tasteful and sophisticated.
Eric14
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Joined: August 25th, 2010, 4:09 pm

Algol's piece

Post by Eric14 »

Very interesting. Fragmentation of contemporary popular culture into commercialised sub-groups killed off the alternative as it was absorbed and became yet another category.

Ideology of sixties/seventies progressive/liberal/radicals fragmented into series of single issues with gender and race topping the charts.

Internet completes fragmentation and atomisation of culture by nature of on-line experience. We are strangers. We know nothing of each other. I am far away.

Obama used Internet to galvanise masses. This signals shape of things to come. However, alternative culture does need, and cannot avoid, having a hierarchically structured centre which provides focus, leadership and the means whereby political power can be gained. Currently, that does not exist.

Regarding music, I think there has to be a local aspect to alternative music. Think global listen local. I know that means listening to some not so great bands but live events are the heart of alternative music.
Eric14
Posts: 45
Joined: August 25th, 2010, 4:09 pm

Algol's piece

Post by Eric14 »

Very interesting. Fragmentation of contemporary popular culture into commercialised sub-groups killed off the alternative as it was absorbed and became yet another category.

Ideology of sixties/seventies progressive/liberal/radicals fragmented into series of single issues with gender and race topping the charts.

Internet completes fragmentation and atomisation of culture by nature of on-line experience. We are strangers. We know nothing of each other. I am far away.

Obama used Internet to galvanise masses. This signals shape of things to come. However, alternative culture does need, and cannot avoid, having a hierarchically structured centre which provides focus, leadership and the means whereby political power can be gained. Currently, that does not exist.

Regarding music, I think there has to be a local aspect to alternative music. Think global listen local. I know that means listening to some not so great bands but live events are the heart of alternative music.
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MisterSlogra
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Re: Algol's piece

Post by MisterSlogra »

Eric14 wrote:Very interesting. Fragmentation of contemporary popular culture into commercialised sub-groups killed off the alternative as it was absorbed and became yet another category.
Your point here is interesting because a musician friend and I both came to the same conclusion; clearly this phenomenon is readily observable.

There is no chance for anything to be different or radical. Whenever a new creative door is opened and some musician enjoys uniqueness, the corporate guardians lock the door behind them and nobody else is allowed inside, unless they know the "password" and can adapt to a pre-programmed sequence.

It's unclear how the situation will develop. The Internet and digital media seem to be contributing to mass distribution of music, free of charge. For me this clearly indicates a mindset that is fed up with corporations putting their stamp of ownership on a universal art form.
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stormy phillips
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Re: The Beatles?

Post by stormy phillips »

They applied "time tone and taste" in a period where people were just beginning to experiment the freedom to imagine freely and experiment both spiritually and scientifically and explore all notions of what it was like to be human. Their songs appear'd simple, easy to relate to and hard to forget, their sound was new and as puzzling as the drugs of the day, something that ought to be credited to George Harrison, as it was George that decided to play these songs by the use of not so easy chords, than those the bands of that time mainly played. In the end they captivated their audience in a childlike way. All other bands were left to fight it out to the top, the Beatles were beyond the top. When I reflect back to those times, I feel folk in general have lost most of what was imagined, along the way......Could have been the drugs.
Men are not disturbed by things, but the view they take of things.....Epictetus
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PaulNZ
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Re: The Beatles?

Post by PaulNZ »

With regard to the latest technology in peronsal connectivity I think it may yet have effects on our social interactions which have not yet been recognised. Once the technology is completely engrained and relied upon across all generations, then I think it may become more apparent. It appears as though the distraction of all the technology has an adverse effect on our abilty to focus for long periods, which in time must be a negative side effect. Of course there are many positive side effects.

Anyway, with regard to the Beatles I think they are so remembered because they appeared at the right time in the right circumstances. Talented as they were, there were others more talented or equally talented at the time. I think they were liked because they "felt" right and something resonated with the youth of the day, and once they had the momentum, they rode the wave so to speak.
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