The Lord of the Rings

[Kingkool]

The review failed to touch on another key point: all that is gold does not glitter. Aragon was first portrayed as a wanderer, an exiled ranger. He was even called Strider. But it turns out that Ranger was the heir to the throne of Gondor, and one of the greatest heros in the book.

[Grendel]

I think that's covered in the infantilism bit.

[Steve3007]

A Poster He Or I:

I very much like the idea of Tom Bombadil as a Buddha-like figure. I'd never considered that before.

I agree with the comments about The Lord of the Rings being heavily influenced by Christianity and its creation mythologies and ideas of good and evil. I also think it was directly influenced by the Second World War, during which it was largely written. The Shire is clearly England - pretty close to the Cotswolds. It's also interesting that the different parts of Yorkshire used to be "The Ridings" very similar to "The Farthings". And the eastern parts of middle earth seem to be Nazi occupied Europe. Tolkien apparently decided that there was some kind of hobbit-like down-to-earth-ness in the English character that could resist tyranny. The question of whether he was right is open for debate!

[Kingkool]

But, unlike England during WWII, The Shire was barely affected at all by the war.

[Grendel]

The Shire was enslaved by Saruman. However I think the Shire was Tolkein's idolised rural England, and the rest of middle Earth industrialised England.

[Belinda]

That's true, Grendel. Now that you have said this I can see that there is something of William Blake in LOTR.

Perhaps the most untrue, the most Christian mythological thing about LOTR is the happy ending. Tragedy is truer than comedy, or at least tragi-comedy is truer than happy endings.

[Steve3007]

I don't think the ending of LOTR was entirely happy was it? It was more like a resignation and acceptance of death and change. Both sad and happy. Gandalf, Frodo and the elves had to leave and go the "utmost west" (i.e. heaven?) and the "era of men" came. Middle Earth could never be the same again. All things must pass. That kind of thing.

[A Poster He or I]

I agree Steve. Frodo succeeded but at irrecoverable cost to himself. Middle Earth was saved but at the cost of any chance for permanence and paradise ever again. With the ascendency of the Aftercomers (humans) and the departure of the immortal First-Born (elves), comes swift change and death.

[Kingkool]

And to show this, Tolkein gave Frodo that lasting wound from the black rider which would never heal.

[Belinda]

True, the ending was not entirely happy as in happy ever after. The Kingdom of Gondor was one of ordinary people; even Aragorn and Arwen although they were heroic they were not Elves. And Frodo died and went to Heaven. The Elves had gone for ever.This is a realistic enough description of the state of things in Middle Earth today. Perhaps Frodo's conquest of evil had a little too much of finality for real life, even although there was the threat that the One Ring might be reforged.

I can imagine there being philosophers in Gondor, but not in The Shire

-- Updated Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:59 am to add the following --

The review failed to touch on another key point: all that is gold does not glitter. Aragon was first portrayed as a wanderer, an exiled ranger. He was even called Strider. But it turns out that Ranger was the heir to the throne of Gondor, and one of the greatest heros in the book.

This is a fair representation of Jesus Christ, don't you think?

[Memnon]

There's a book with Tolkien's notes called The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien which I have not gotten into yet. It is used by the hardcore fans to really explain concepts throughout the books. I love LotR and I think the Ring is Sauron. He basically put the greater part of his being into it in order to master the other Rings by which he could gain control of all the races. "One Ring to rule them all....and in the darkness bind them."

There is another book called Morgoth's Ring. Morgoth was Sauron's master. The first great evil. Check the Silmarillion as others have suggested. Arda was his Ring since he poured his power over a greater sphere, the world and therefore it was basically always tainted. This did waste away his base power. Soon he could not become incorporeal anymore and was stuck in his body and was given 7 wounds by an Elven king who he killed and a great eagle. Think of Melkor's power put into the creation of orcs, dragons, trolls, all those horrible creatures and apparently poured into other parts of the world, like gold I suppose. Sauron took a different tact and instead of spreading his power out into the world, he was not as powerful, he concentrated most of it into the Ring which apparently even had a power over him. I think it may have whispered into the minds of its bearers, sort of like a devil, each succumbing eventually, even Frodo and Bilbo. It became a bane and a weakness. It corrupted the powerful like Saruman, the high-king of the Numenoreans after the fall of Numenor, to the least among the people like Smeagol, Gollum.

I believe the maring of Arda was in fact a plan of Eru the supreme being, thus Melkor's role was to put his taint into it. I believe the unmarred parts were put into the land where the Valar resided with the elves. In the beginning there was music sung and Melkor always caused discord in the song as he did with the building up of the world.

I do believe the Ring was trying to find it's way back to Sauron. It seems to have always left after its previous bearer came to an untimely end. It was a 'weapon' to dominate. The elves created similar Rings to preserve their lands in ME. They never wore the 3 so long as Sauron possessed the One. He ensared men who became the Nazgul through the 9 while he had the One. This apparently made Sauron a greater threat than Melkor. Because through these 20 Rings as Gandalf said if Sauron recovered the One he, "will comand them all again, wherever they be, even the Three, and all that has been wrought with them will be laid bare". With the elves of Eregion Sauron came as a guide and helped them develop all these Rings of power. I suppose for them with good intent, for Sauron to usurp the plains and hideouts of his enemies. I guess Sauron was a little more deceptive than his master is trying to go for a way to overcome his enemies with less of an overwhelming for and more through deceit.

-- Updated Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:34 am to add the following --

The review failed to touch on another key point: all that is gold does not glitter. Aragon was first portrayed as a wanderer, an exiled ranger. He was even called Strider. But it turns out that Ranger was the heir to the throne of Gondor, and one of the greatest heros in the book.

All that is gold does not glitter, think of the Hobbits. In the world little thought of, but a big part in the overthrow of Sauron. I think it applies to them as well. They were not particularly beautiful, though not an ugly species. Small of stature, solitary, somewhat boring. Though Gandalf enjoyed their company and apparently saw gold where Saruman did not.

[A Poster He or I]

I believe the maring of Arda was in fact a plan of Eru the supreme being, thus Melkor's role was to put his taint into it. I believe the unmarred parts were put into the land where the Valar resided with the elves. In the beginning there was music sung and Melkor always caused discord in the song as he did with the building up of the world.

I too have wondered whether Eru (God) intended for Melkor to fall. The parallel with Lucifer is obvious and demonstrates that in composing his own creation myth (Ainulindalë from The Silmarillion) Tolkien ran straight into the age-old "Problem of Evil" that plagues the Abrahamic traditions and Western philosophy.

[Groktruth]

I love both the books and the movies. This is my attempt to start any type of conversation behind the philosophy in it. Would mankind ever let his greed blind him to the obvious treachery being handed to him? Are all wanderers not lost? Does all that is gold not glitter? What would be the modern day equivelant of the one master ring? Would a person like a hobbit really be the best one to entrust such a task to? Don't be limited to just these topics, come up with your own.

I understand that both the LOTR and the Narnia Chronicles were born out of a friendship between Lewis and Tolkien, and a fellowship called the Inklings. The basic agreement was that we humans at best have only an inkling about how things are in the world, both natural and spiritual, but we can write and tell stories which make both us and our readers know that in our coping with this uncertainty, we are not alone. Friendship is indeed based on the discovery in another of some inkling that we had, and before finding the friend, thought we had alone. Lewis once wrote that we find a friend when we meet someone, and have to exclaim, "What? You too? I thought I was the only one!"

But, Lewis and Tolkien disagreed about writing a story/parable with a "moral" or clearly thought out point. Tolkien's view was that our goal ought only to be to tell an engaging story, trusting in one's muse or the Holy Spirit to make that story engaging. Such tales would go way beyond our limited inklings to touch deep subconscious stirrings in the hearts of our readers. Lewis saw ideas fairly clearly, that he wanted to free from religious or dogmatic presentations that had dulled their meaning. I suspect Lewis tried Tolkien's idea in his book, "Till we have faces," and found he could not make it work for him. Clearly, both were on to something, that suited their own giftings.

Lewis, at least, was influenced by Chesterton, who had this to say about Christianity.

"It is not that Christianity has been tried, and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult, and never tried."

Tolkien's Lord of the Rings gives us vivid images of the hope that lies in noble choices, and comfort in our lack of understanding of why, exactly those choices are indeed noble. Our inklings, nurtured and shared, seem to be enough to release unseen forces of good, that guide and protect us as we deal honorably against equally unseen forces of evil. If we indeed step up to this honor, there will be eagles, and Shadowfax, and even Goldberry. Or, we can despise the Gandalfs that come our way, and the Striders, without repenting, and never see any of it.

Some people make things happen. Others watch things happen, The rest can only ask, "What happened?" Images of all can be found in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

[Belinda]

Groktruth quoted Chesterton:

"It is not that Christianity has been tried, and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult, and never tried."

There is another author who may be contrasted with both Tolkien and Lewis. This is Phillip Pullman the author of ' His Dark Materials 'trilogy whose Lyra heroine at the end suffers permanent deprivation of the love of her life. Other characters, really nice people, do also suffer and die. This is the evil of life, and the evil is not so much a problem but simply exists so we have to deal with it practically without inventing any myth to explain and ameliorate.

I think that Christianity has been tried by many people most of them obscure persons, and has never been perfected by any of them, because they are all human beings, but what matters is that we try as well as we can. Christianity whatever that may mean, is not the only way.

[Kingkool]

The review failed to touch on another key point: all that is gold does not glitter. Aragon was first portrayed as a wanderer, an exiled ranger. He was even called Strider. But it turns out that Ranger was the heir to the throne of Gondor, and one of the greatest heros in the book.

This is a fair representation of Jesus Christ, don't you think?

It is true that there are many religious allegories in LOTR. For instance, The One Ring could be a message of the terrors of lust, greed, and envy. Sauron was the devil, and can only manifest himself in the sins of men. Only when we cast away sin do we cast away the devil. Saruman showed the evil of worshiping a creature who is not god. This is two-fold. Not only did he worship Sauron, the devil, and ultimately meet his doom, but Gandalf, (who didn't really worship, but more like blindly followed) died because of Saruman. Which brings me to another, more straight forward example. After Gandalf died, he spent ages in an unknown state, and became Gandalf The Greybecame Gandalf The white. The greyness of humanity is lifted and turned to the white of heaven after death if you are truly deserving of it.