Philosophy Discussion Forums

We disagree because all judgments are objective and beauty judgments are not only matters of personal preference and taste, but in addition to the subjective element, there is the objective element. A judgment is objective. For example, you can prefer olives instead of grapes. But this does not change the fact that, even though you personally dislike grapes, some grapes are still better and worse than others.

You do not need to prefer the taste of grapes, to judge its higher and lower quality. Imagine eating a rotten grape. First you do not prefer it. Second it is rotten.

Some people are rarer in the sense that they put objectivity in front of subjectivity at all times. Objectivity requires realizing, understanding, and accepting personal preferences. Your lack of awareness of objectivity signals to me that you are a deeply subjective person, brain, and may not be capable of making objective value judgments. You are a normal person. Normal people are not objective. This is also why normal people are discouraged from being "judgmental". Most obviously in the example of christianity, judgment is negative and evil. Humans are not allowed to judge the world, only God can, does, and should. Christians feel taboo and reservation about judging other people. Are you a christian?

I am not. I feel no hesitation or remorse, guilt or shame, from judging the world around me.

Judging you.

To me, the fashion industry in the modern world is only about making money.

I will also propose that the concept of incremental size, which is a product of the fashion industry of the early 1800's in order to standardize the mass production of garments, is a direct contributor to the mass acceptance of what is considered beautiful or not, since.

In the 1920's the flapper was a very specific look that many women tried to emulate. Dress size attached a real-world attainable (or unattainable) number to objectifying women, based on a cultural generalization of beauty, and not an individual opinion of beauty.

Flash-forward to today and we have an entire industry with it's roots in standardize molds of fashion that reinvents itself in 20 year loops. In short, it's about making money off of vanity, regardless of perceived, or actual sexuality. The fashion industry packages it, puts a number on it, and gives us plenty of ways to conform to it, at a price.

Imagine what the world would be like today if it was normal for a personal tailor to come to your home and fit you based on 'your' size, like they did before dress sizes.

It would be about what looked good on you, and about not what size you are.

In conclusion, I see this poll and question as a product of our society, and not based on any practical actuality. We accept the illusion of dress sizes, because the fashion industry profits from it. If we destroy the illusion, then we all come one step closer accepting people for who they are, and not what others want them to be.

Wizard wrote:We disagree because all judgments are objective and beauty judgments are not only matters of personal preference and taste, but in addition to the subjective element, there is the objective element. A judgment is objective. For example, you can prefer olives instead of grapes. But this does not change the fact that, even though you personally dislike grapes, some grapes are still better and worse than others.

You do not need to prefer the taste of grapes, to judge its higher and lower quality. Imagine eating a rotten grape. First you do not prefer it. Second it is rotten.

Some people are rarer in the sense that they put objectivity in front of subjectivity at all times. Objectivity requires realizing, understanding, and accepting personal preferences. Your lack of awareness of objectivity signals to me that you are a deeply subjective person, brain, and may not be capable of making objective value judgments. You are a normal person. Normal people are not objective. This is also why normal people are discouraged from being "judgmental". Most obviously in the example of christianity, judgment is negative and evil. Humans are not allowed to judge the world, only God can, does, and should. Christians feel taboo and reservation about judging other people. Are you a christian?

I am not. I feel no hesitation or remorse, guilt or shame, from judging the world around me.

Judging you.

You are more normal than you give yourself credit for. You also misrepresent judgment in Christianity.

Human judgments are just opinions and everybody has them. I gave you my opinion about the pic you offered and I felt no hesitation, remorse, guilt or shame. I am dizzy from your circular post.

They say women get prettier at closing time in a bar and I guess men seem like nice guys.

"Judging you," I could not care less.

Misty wrote:"Judging you," I could not care less.

Good, then I will continue my admiration of Valeria as an ideal, perfect beauty that other females cannot live up to.

She is a powerful representation of beauty. I expect most females will feel immense intimidation and jealousy toward her.

Wizard wrote:

Misty wrote:"Judging you," I could not care less.

Good, then I will continue my admiration of Valeria as an ideal, perfect beauty that other females cannot live up to.

She is a powerful representation of beauty. I expect most females will feel immense intimidation and jealousy toward her.

Other men will think their ideal of beauty is different than yours and some will think your pic is beautiful. Maybe some other men will add a pic of their ideal beauty. Same goes for women, many would outshine your pic and others would not. I doubt many would be jealous toward her. I wish her the best life has to offer her. Are you the best life has to offer her? All that matters is that you are happy with her. Would you still be happy with her if everyone else does not share your view of her? It seems you need others to agree with you to solidify what you think is ideal.

You are showing you are angry because I do not agree with your ideal of beauty.

Wizard wrote:

Misty wrote:"Judging you," I could not care less.

Good, then I will continue my admiration of Valeria as an ideal, perfect beauty that other females cannot live up to.

She is a powerful representation of beauty. I expect most females will feel immense intimidation and jealousy toward her.

Just so you know, Wizard. Her and I are in love with each other. Sorry to have to break it this way by a philosophy forum. I should philosophically regard my breaking the news here as unforgivable, but I appear to have little moral fortitude when it comes to my lusts (as lusts demonstrate, I suppose, by being lusts). There are, I am sure (not really, she was your last chance but she is mine now) there are plenty of other fish in the sea (this is not even ecologically sound reasoning given the over commercialisation of the Earth's sea life).

Tara Laughton by far.

"True beauty comes from the soul to change yourself, and to conform to anyone else's standards of beauty, is to change your essence, own who you are, and you become a truly powerful woman."

I see all different shapes in bikinis at the beach; I don't think anything of it. As long as you're comfortable. Chances are there will always be someone bigger there that you can lay your towel down next to...

Would've been interesting to see the difference between womens votes and mens votes.

It might be interesting to point out something I recently read about the philosopher Rene Descartes.Descartes was strongly attracted to women who were cross-eyed. He admited his fixation and indicated that the reason for his fixation was some kind of early experience with a girl who he knew who had that condition. This adds evidence to the point that I had been making that we are all subjected to fixations and conditioning factors. There is a reason for everything. One man might be fixated on women with freckels or any other physical feature.

It is true for me too. If I like someone I am attracted to other people who share similar physical features.

It's kind of a personal taste you may as well be asking if you prefer strawberry or chocolate yoghurt the result will vary depending on the people who take the poll. Also there can be differences in attractiveness that have nothing to do with dress size a really fat Kate Moss is still going to be more appealing to more people than a really slim Jimmy Crankie.

Blake 789 wrote:It's kind of a personal taste you may as well be asking if you prefer strawberry or chocolate yoghurt the result will vary depending on the people who take the poll. Also there can be differences in attractiveness that have nothing to do with dress size a really fat Kate Moss is still going to be more appealing to more people than a really slim Jimmy Crankie.

Hahahhahaa!!!

Brillliant!

Gamnot wrote:It might be interesting to point out something I recently read about the philosopher Rene Descartes.Descartes was strongly attracted to women who were cross-eyed. He admited his fixation and indicated that the reason for his fixation was some kind of early experience with a girl who he knew who had that condition. This adds evidence to the point that I had been making that we are all subjected to fixations and conditioning factors. There is a reason for everything. One man might be fixated on women with freckels or any other physical feature.

I seem to be turned on by ugly females more than by pretty ones.

I guess all my babysitters were probably ugly then.

But as the song goes, if you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife, so from my personal point of view, pick an ugly girl to marry you.