Why does music have such universal appeal?

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » June 2nd, 2013, 10:01 pm

Evolution?? Evolution is a theory. You have to free yourself from theory to understand what 'deep' means. Religious theory, of course, too; but keeping in mind that religion, divested of its nonsense is very powerful.

Fishere · Post by **Fishere** » June 3rd, 2013, 5:26 am

Hereandnow wrote:Evolution?? Evolution is a theory. You have to free yourself from theory to understand what 'deep' means. Religious theory, of course, too; but keeping in mind that religion, divested of its nonsense is very powerful.

I don't want to get involved in a scientific theistic debate here, but evolution is a theory as much as gravity is. Religion is not a theory because it is non-falsifiable and based on logical fallacies.

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » June 3rd, 2013, 6:39 am

Evvolution is a theory, gravity is a theory, this desk is a theory. SInce I read Peirce's Fixationof Belief and How We Make outr Ideas Clear, as well as Kant's Critique and others, I am convinced that we live in theory; that is, our concepts are pragmatic tools that are, given that our beliefs and knowledge claims about the world are in time, anticipatory. 'Desk' is not merely generalizing nomenclature or empty subsumption; it is a dynamic temporal priniciple that, once learned, allows us to encounter things that fit the schematic of the concept (desk and desk-like objects) and have a knowledge relation with it. That is why when we encounter things, we are not frightened out of our wits by their raw existential presence. Religion is a theory for the same reason. We encounter the end of reason where the "words run out' as Putnam puts it, and we are placated by the familiarity the Biblical stories, etc., give us. Without these, we would become Kiekegaardian nervous wrecks.

Theophane · Post by **Theophane** » June 3rd, 2013, 6:41 am

Religious theory, of course, too; but keeping in mind that religion, divested of its nonsense is very powerful.

Divesting religion of its nonsense, would that make it a utilitarian philosophy? A science?

Fishere · Post by **Fishere** » June 3rd, 2013, 7:52 am

Let's not forget the original question.

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » June 3rd, 2013, 10:31 am

"Divesting religion of its nonsense, would that make it a utilitarian philosophy? A science?"[quote][/quote]

Well, utility is an open concept, isn't it? It's not just hedonism. Better to be Socrates unhappy than a pig contented, said Mill. But what if the religious ideas that people are so fond of, the moralizing and the story telling, interfere with something more important? Suppose there really is a human religious situation, and being transfixed by biblical thinking we miss this very "deep" value. There would be disutility in this, then.

-- Updated June 3rd, 2013, 10:36 am to add the following --

Yes, the original question: Music is for me so profound thatI have no words for it. I have to refer to Wordsworth and his Intimations of Immortality. Music is an intimation of something, like being in love, beautiful beyond this world's language to contain. See Wttgenstein's Lecture on Ethics and subsequent essay on Culture: Such things are beyond what is seen and factual.

Theophane · Post by **Theophane** » June 3rd, 2013, 10:39 am

Music is for me so profound thatI have no words for it. I have to refer to Wordsworth and his Intimations of Immortality. Music is an intimation of something, like being in love, beautiful beyond this world's language to contain. See Wttgenstein's Lecture on Ethics and subsequent essay on Culture: Such things are beyond what is seen and factual.

Music is like God, then.

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » June 3rd, 2013, 7:34 pm

'God' A useful enough term for now, butlike all concepts, it tends to dominate interpretation and leads us to believe the world is language. I have an issue with language and the way makes a claim on world that so blinds us to the world itself. As if we 'know' what a table is by giving it a name. What is value? A garage sale?

Theophane · Post by **Theophane** » June 3rd, 2013, 8:06 pm

The map is not the territory. I think I understand what you're saying.

Jklint · Post by **Jklint** » June 3rd, 2013, 10:34 pm

If poetry be the Paraclete of the spirit's goal
Then music is its prolog insurgent in the soul!
Volitioned there a vector to the word
As if God had spoken in commandments to be heard.

I think it was Lewis Thomas (The lives of a Cell) who declared that if it were his choice to represent the Human Race to other beings out there or to represent us when we no-longer exist he would send out all the works of J.S. Bach as denoting the best the human race has to offer.

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » June 4th, 2013, 12:14 am

But, Jklint, that would be lying by omission.

Jklint · Post by **Jklint** » June 4th, 2013, 1:11 am

Hereandnow wrote:But, Jklint, that would be lying by omission.

...pray, what specifically is omitted that would generate the lie?

Hereandnow · Post by **Hereandnow** » June 4th, 2013, 3:26 am

What about the worst? Bach is nice. But it's not the whole story by a million light years.

PaulNZ · Post by **PaulNZ** » June 4th, 2013, 4:10 am

To me music has to invoke an emotion or feeling to be of any interest to me. Some "pop" music can be fun and be useful to dance to, which seems to be a method for us mere mortals to temporarily lose ourselves in the moment. I listen to some music which invokes great sadness in me, almost to the point of tears - for example Max Richter's Sarajevo. Why? I don't know but it is a beautiful experience and again, for a time I am lost in the music.

Is our lack of vocabulary, our apparent inability to satisfactorily describe what happens when we connect with particular music and why, because we are experiencing a form of an altered state of consciousness?